4 ms·

So the advice is: * Find meaning outside work, with the five hours per week you have between working full time, commuting (hopefully not as much anymore), and

by feoren 2y ago

So the advice is: * Find meaning outside work, with the five hours per week you have between working full time, commuting (hopefully not as much anymore), and taking care of your kids and yourself. Hours during which you're completely exhausted and mentally drained. * The same advice again, but while touching grass. * Become labeled as negative, get union-busted. * Quit and go to another bullshit job where the exact same cycle will repeat. Look, I'm not actually saying this advice is wrong, or that it should be better advice. I'm saying that this stated goal: > When I set out to finally put all these thoughts down in text, I did not want it to be all doom and gloom was not achieved by the author. It is all doom and gloom. Because bullshit work really does kill your soul, and the best advice we can come up with for dealing with that is awful. Many, many smart people have spent a LOT of money and effort organizing the American capitalist system (and those in other countries, to varying degrees of success) so that you have absolutely no power to improve your situation, ever. Turning us all back into serfs is their intentional, focused goal, and has been for many decades, and they are invested in it, and they are good at it. It's only going to continue to get worse. You cannot do anything about it. Everything only ever gets worse.

FloorEgg 2y ago
Disclaimer: I haven't read the article. I'm just responding to the end of your comment. As someone who has spent years doing unimportant work that I was able to find some meaning in, and who has made sacrifices in order to expand my opportunities and eventually consistently find work that is important and meaningful, I totally disagree with your message. I understand there are a lot of pitfalls people can get stuck in and most things aren't as good as they could be... But that doesn't mean everything is awful or that everything is getting worse overall on average. I mean this in the most constructive way possible: I think you could benefit a lot from cognitive behavioral therapy. Few things that helped me tremendously... Victor Frankel - Man's Search for Meaning Marcus Aurelius - Meditations (or Ryan Holiday if you don't have the patience) I am not religious but this prayer helped me a lot: Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference. You aren't asking for help, and I understand that these suggestions may just piss you off... But if there is a small chance they help you or anyone else who sees them that feels similar to you, then they are worth sharing. The world doesn't get better with apathy or victimhood or defeatism, it gets better by accepting reality as it really is and then getting to work on it. You are surrounded by meaningful work, it just seems like you have been tricked into not seeing it.
- grugagag 2y ago
  For making things better personally I agree with you on changing the mindset in the ways you mentioned. Im agnostic leaning a bit towards atheism and yet I found praying help bring serentiy sometimes. There are many ways to bring serenity. It’s just cope. However, from a systemic point of view we can’t all nor are all of us capable in this ballancing act of taking a meaningless job and moving the needle on the meaningless scale on the side. Humanity is loosing the battle. Bullshit jobs do turn us into serfs of sorts.
  - FloorEgg 2y ago
    I think we might be conflating meaning, importance, 3rd party benefit, and satisfaction (at least). I'm not advocating for anyone to stay in what they feel is a bullshit job while trying to fake some perception of meaning. If you're unsatisfied with your work for ~two straight months, absolutely make a change. Is the problem that you're doing work that doesn't benefit anyone else? That you're constrained to only do it in an unproductive way? That you personally are not satisfied by the work? That you receive no gratitude for your work? That you're no longer learning or growing? Not making enough money? Something else? What I'm really having trouble agreeing with is that the system is so broken that it's futile to try to improve your situation, and that this constraint is getting worse. It's so far from my experience that while it might be true in some cases I know it's not true globally. I started out minimum wage picking up garbage, working front line retail, etc. barely making ends meet. I used a significant portion of my free time to learn new skills. I sacrificed hanging out with friends on the weekends through most of my 20s. I worked hard. Progress was slow at first, but I built momentum. Over the years I got more and better opportunities. Now my work is meaningful, challenging, impactful and pays well. (I'm in my 30s) When I hear someone say that they are trapped in serdom, or that capitalism is the problem, and that it's futile to try and improve their circumstances, I can't help but think they have been tricked into sabotaging themselves. Some people truely are stuck due to disability, but people who have the ability to be productive and have just given up are wrong.
  - nradov 2y ago
    If you want a meaningful job then you can just go get one. There is plenty of work available in construction labor. What could be more meaningful than building homes for people. Or go work in an elder care facility. They are always hiring attendants and you can make a real difference in the lives of the patients.

by feoren 2y ago

FloorEgg 2y ago

Disclaimer: I haven't read the article. I'm just responding to the end of your comment. As someone who has spent years doing unimportant work that I was able to find some meaning in, and who has made sacrifices in order to expand my opportunities and eventually consistently find work that is important and meaningful, I totally disagree with your message. I understand there are a lot of pitfalls people can get stuck in and most things aren't as good as they could be... But that doesn't mean everything is awful or that everything is getting worse overall on average. I mean this in the most constructive way possible: I think you could benefit a lot from cognitive behavioral therapy. Few things that helped me tremendously... Victor Frankel - Man's Search for Meaning Marcus Aurelius - Meditations (or Ryan Holiday if you don't have the patience) I am not religious but this prayer helped me a lot: Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, The courage to change the things I can, And the wisdom to know the difference. You aren't asking for help, and I understand that these suggestions may just piss you off... But if there is a small chance they help you or anyone else who sees them that feels similar to you, then they are worth sharing. The world doesn't get better with apathy or victimhood or defeatism, it gets better by accepting reality as it really is and then getting to work on it. You are surrounded by meaningful work, it just seems like you have been tricked into not seeing it.

grugagag 2y ago
For making things better personally I agree with you on changing the mindset in the ways you mentioned. Im agnostic leaning a bit towards atheism and yet I found praying help bring serentiy sometimes. There are many ways to bring serenity. It’s just cope. However, from a systemic point of view we can’t all nor are all of us capable in this ballancing act of taking a meaningless job and moving the needle on the meaningless scale on the side. Humanity is loosing the battle. Bullshit jobs do turn us into serfs of sorts.
- FloorEgg 2y ago
  I think we might be conflating meaning, importance, 3rd party benefit, and satisfaction (at least). I'm not advocating for anyone to stay in what they feel is a bullshit job while trying to fake some perception of meaning. If you're unsatisfied with your work for ~two straight months, absolutely make a change. Is the problem that you're doing work that doesn't benefit anyone else? That you're constrained to only do it in an unproductive way? That you personally are not satisfied by the work? That you receive no gratitude for your work? That you're no longer learning or growing? Not making enough money? Something else? What I'm really having trouble agreeing with is that the system is so broken that it's futile to try to improve your situation, and that this constraint is getting worse. It's so far from my experience that while it might be true in some cases I know it's not true globally. I started out minimum wage picking up garbage, working front line retail, etc. barely making ends meet. I used a significant portion of my free time to learn new skills. I sacrificed hanging out with friends on the weekends through most of my 20s. I worked hard. Progress was slow at first, but I built momentum. Over the years I got more and better opportunities. Now my work is meaningful, challenging, impactful and pays well. (I'm in my 30s) When I hear someone say that they are trapped in serdom, or that capitalism is the problem, and that it's futile to try and improve their circumstances, I can't help but think they have been tricked into sabotaging themselves. Some people truely are stuck due to disability, but people who have the ability to be productive and have just given up are wrong.
- nradov 2y ago
  If you want a meaningful job then you can just go get one. There is plenty of work available in construction labor. What could be more meaningful than building homes for people. Or go work in an elder care facility. They are always hiring attendants and you can make a real difference in the lives of the patients.