5 ms·

Back in my freelance days I had a client who refused to pay. I took him to small claims court and won. Actually collected the money. - small claims court is ve

by issa 2y ago

Back in my freelance days I had a client who refused to pay. I took him to small claims court and won. Actually collected the money. - small claims court is very easy and relatively quick. no need for a lawyer. - there is a cap on the amount, so I won $10k, not the full amount owed. But close enough and much better than $0. - make every reasonable attempt to resolve this prior to filing but, as stated throughout this thread, do not stress yourself out. This should be a fire-and-forget process. Consider the money lost, and if you win, it's just bonus.

Alupis 2y ago
Simply winning at Small Claims Court does not guarantee you win money. Often collecting the money is difficult, impossible, or too expensive.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Ignoring a court order to pay is a little more serious than ignoring an invoice. The latter is a civil claim, I would guess the former might be criminal.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    Enforcement of Small Claims decisions are very often left up to you... and by virtue of being Small Claims, often are not worth the cost to collect anyway.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      So what's the point of it then? If ignoring the order is not criminal, I'd think at least it opens you up to having a lien filed on your assets or something?
      - Alupis 2y ago
        That's a really good question... Say the landscaping contractor screws up your yard, and you want a refund of the $2500 you paid. They refuse so you take them to Small Claims. Let's say you win... what happens next? Usually nothing. You have a judgement you can rightfully enforce, but every path of enforcement is going to cost you more time and more money (wage garnishment, etc). For such a relatively small amount of money, it can quickly become not worth while to collect. For your county, you can look up what your local Sheriff Office charges to provide these services. Fees vary by location. Fees tend to stack as you have to file paperwork with multiple entities, etc. This all takes a lot of time as well, and you are not going to recover any of the enforcement expenses either. The math is different in each situation - but you can see where it can often become not worth enforcement.
        SoftTalker 2y ago
        Collection costs would be added to what the person owes, I would think. In the OP's case at least, I'd ask the judge to include that in the judgement, given that the customer has already demonstrated a reluctance to pay.
        Alupis 2y ago
        You would have to sue again, in small claims court, for recovery of the fees. The court will not preemptively award estimated collection fees since you have not yet been burdened by them and they are unknown. It's not like a regular civil case where attorney's fees are known by time you are receiving judgement.
        purpleblue 2y ago
        It's an open and shut case to get a judgement in your favor on recovery of the fees. Just anticipate two small claims court appearances (or maybe recursive appearances if they don't pay the recovery fees) and it will be fine. Eventually they will just pay.
        Alupis 2y ago
    - criticas 2y ago
      Check your state laws. Here, there are a variety of liens available to enforce a small claims judgement. While foreclosing a real-estate lien requires an attorney, the process begins with a debtor's examination. Being called in to court to explain your finances convinces many people to pay up.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  It depends on the scenario. I had an issue with a notorious tow service in my city, won a few thousand dollars, and placed a lien on one of his trucks. After a diligent search, the only truck I could absolutely identity was a $150k recovery vehicle that printed money for him. When we showed up with his competitor to tow his truck, he appeared with an envelope containing the full judgement in cash. The guy was such an asshole, I would have gladly spent a few thousand dollars just to inflict pain and disruption upon him.
  - Alupis 2y ago
    As a counter example, San Diego County Sheriff charges $2500 to levy a vehicle[1] - and I'm certain there's more fees involved since there will be a title involved somewhere, possibly a bank/lienholder, etc. So if you were owed a couple thousand, this would not be worth paying to enforce. Unless you're made of money and highly principled (as a fellow pot-stirrer, my hat would be off to you). [1] https://www.sdsheriff.gov/bureaus/court-services-bureau/civil-fees https://www.sdsheriff.gov/bureaus/court-services-bureau/civi...
    - Suppafly 2y ago
      That's essentially what it costs to have the police do the work for you, not what it costs to have the work done in general.
      - Alupis 2y ago
        Judgement or not, you will not be able to tow away someone else's vehicle without having the police involved. This is the process. Small Claims, by nature, is for petty disputes between citizens.
        15155 2y ago
        Perhaps append "in California" or whatever jurisdiction you are in. These are local and state matters: some states respect private property and contractual arrangements more diligently than others.
Supermancho 2y ago
If you can do small claims, you should. I have won and lost in small claims, but it's very simple. A matter of filling out some paperwork and an hour or two (unusual) in court.
alsetmusic 2y ago
> Consider the money lost, and if you win, it's just bonus. I think this is the most important part of the advice. Treat it like a gambling budget that you can lose without feeling bad about it. I know that’s harder to do retroactively than setting aside $200 in chips to play cards, but start adjusting your finances now for that possibility. I was in this position only once and the person who ripped me off got away with it because the amount of my time spent was small enough that it wasn’t worth pursuing, so I’m not a great example of success in this area. But I’m still mad about the fact that I was treated that way and switching to an “it’s gone” mindset helped me process my emotions about it. My anger is now principled rather than emotional.

by issa 2y ago

Alupis 2y ago

Simply winning at Small Claims Court does not guarantee you win money. Often collecting the money is difficult, impossible, or too expensive.

SoftTalker 2y ago
Ignoring a court order to pay is a little more serious than ignoring an invoice. The latter is a civil claim, I would guess the former might be criminal.
- Alupis 2y ago
  Enforcement of Small Claims decisions are very often left up to you... and by virtue of being Small Claims, often are not worth the cost to collect anyway.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    So what's the point of it then? If ignoring the order is not criminal, I'd think at least it opens you up to having a lien filed on your assets or something?
    - Alupis 2y ago
      That's a really good question... Say the landscaping contractor screws up your yard, and you want a refund of the $2500 you paid. They refuse so you take them to Small Claims. Let's say you win... what happens next? Usually nothing. You have a judgement you can rightfully enforce, but every path of enforcement is going to cost you more time and more money (wage garnishment, etc). For such a relatively small amount of money, it can quickly become not worth while to collect. For your county, you can look up what your local Sheriff Office charges to provide these services. Fees vary by location. Fees tend to stack as you have to file paperwork with multiple entities, etc. This all takes a lot of time as well, and you are not going to recover any of the enforcement expenses either. The math is different in each situation - but you can see where it can often become not worth enforcement.
      - SoftTalker 2y ago
        Collection costs would be added to what the person owes, I would think. In the OP's case at least, I'd ask the judge to include that in the judgement, given that the customer has already demonstrated a reluctance to pay.
        Alupis 2y ago
        You would have to sue again, in small claims court, for recovery of the fees. The court will not preemptively award estimated collection fees since you have not yet been burdened by them and they are unknown. It's not like a regular civil case where attorney's fees are known by time you are receiving judgement.
        purpleblue 2y ago
        It's an open and shut case to get a judgement in your favor on recovery of the fees. Just anticipate two small claims court appearances (or maybe recursive appearances if they don't pay the recovery fees) and it will be fine. Eventually they will just pay.
        Alupis 2y ago
  - criticas 2y ago
    Check your state laws. Here, there are a variety of liens available to enforce a small claims judgement. While foreclosing a real-estate lien requires an attorney, the process begins with a debtor's examination. Being called in to court to explain your finances convinces many people to pay up.
Spooky23 2y ago
It depends on the scenario. I had an issue with a notorious tow service in my city, won a few thousand dollars, and placed a lien on one of his trucks. After a diligent search, the only truck I could absolutely identity was a $150k recovery vehicle that printed money for him. When we showed up with his competitor to tow his truck, he appeared with an envelope containing the full judgement in cash. The guy was such an asshole, I would have gladly spent a few thousand dollars just to inflict pain and disruption upon him.
- Alupis 2y ago
  As a counter example, San Diego County Sheriff charges $2500 to levy a vehicle[1] - and I'm certain there's more fees involved since there will be a title involved somewhere, possibly a bank/lienholder, etc. So if you were owed a couple thousand, this would not be worth paying to enforce. Unless you're made of money and highly principled (as a fellow pot-stirrer, my hat would be off to you). [1] https://www.sdsheriff.gov/bureaus/court-services-bureau/civil-fees https://www.sdsheriff.gov/bureaus/court-services-bureau/civi...
  - Suppafly 2y ago
    That's essentially what it costs to have the police do the work for you, not what it costs to have the work done in general.
    - Alupis 2y ago
      Judgement or not, you will not be able to tow away someone else's vehicle without having the police involved. This is the process. Small Claims, by nature, is for petty disputes between citizens.
      - 15155 2y ago
        Perhaps append "in California" or whatever jurisdiction you are in. These are local and state matters: some states respect private property and contractual arrangements more diligently than others.

Supermancho 2y ago

If you can do small claims, you should. I have won and lost in small claims, but it's very simple. A matter of filling out some paperwork and an hour or two (unusual) in court.

alsetmusic 2y ago

> Consider the money lost, and if you win, it's just bonus. I think this is the most important part of the advice. Treat it like a gambling budget that you can lose without feeling bad about it. I know that’s harder to do retroactively than setting aside $200 in chips to play cards, but start adjusting your finances now for that possibility. I was in this position only once and the person who ripped me off got away with it because the amount of my time spent was small enough that it wasn’t worth pursuing, so I’m not a great example of success in this area. But I’m still mad about the fact that I was treated that way and switching to an “it’s gone” mindset helped me process my emotions about it. My anger is now principled rather than emotional.