3 ms·

A family became scientists to find a cure and their solution is pretty simple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PmEJaYKd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PmE

A family became scientists to find a cure and their solution is pretty simple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PmEJaYKd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PmEJaYKd0

dekhn 2y ago
There are no simple solutions to complex biology problems that work in a medical context.
- piker 2y ago
  …penicillin?
  - dekhn 2y ago
    using a byproduct of mold to cure a bacterial infection isn't simple. Merely noticing it was a rare occurrence (Fleming got lucky with his dirty lab), it only works on gram positive bacteria, and importantly, use of penicillin leads to evolution of antibiotic resistance, reducing the utility of penicillin. That last point especially is a highly non-simple process. Like just about anything in medical biology, there is a simple narrative taught to the general public, and then there's the reality as it stands in modern medical research and practice. For prions, I'm sure people can find any number of ways to module prion activity in vitro, most of which won't work in vivo/in the real world, for messy complex reasons. To use machine learning parlance, a feature like the existence of a TED talk by the creators of a medical treatment being True highly correlates with the ineffectiveness of the treatment (same as "If published in Nature, it's almost certainly wrong!")
  - nikolay 2y ago
    Aspirin?
    - dekhn 2y ago
      Aspirin causes stomach bleeding due to its anti-clotting effect due to nonselective binding and inhibition to COX-1 and COX-2; see the list of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin#Adverse_effects to see all the complications that arise from this relatively innocuous drug. 43 deaths in the US in a single year (mostly people taking the drug as a poison). See details in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylate_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylate_poisoning showing the all the kinds of human biology aspirin interacts with that don't directly contribute to pain suppression. The main reason for fewer people dying from aspirin was a shift to other drugs.
      - dyauspitr 2y ago
        Millions of people use aspirin everyday to relieve aches and pains. 43 deaths is nothing compared to the benefits, especially since those people are intentionally overdosing with the intention of killing themselves.
        thinkfaster 2y ago
        Some of us are explicitly forbidden to take aspirin by their Dr. so the population of asprin takers is biased towards a cohort for whom asprin is safe.
        vaylian 2y ago
        I don't think that this is GP's point. The point is rather that biology is complex and solutions to biological problems are always complex even if they are accompanied by a simple narrative.
        FeepingCreature 2y ago
        Simple solutions can still have complex effects. There's no contradiction here.
      - nikolay 2y ago
        That's a huge misconception and poor science. In fact, enteric-coated aspirin is worse as it could cause bleeding in the intestines, which is worse. There are plenty of studies that show taking aspirin with vitamin C or DGL does not cause bleeding! I think taking it alongside collagen/gelatin also prevents bleeding. There was a sublingual form, which I cannot find (Fasprin). Also, there's Vazalore, which might be liposomal. I don't know, but the effervescent Aspirin C by Bayer is amazing! It works very well for gargles for sour throat, too!
- tim333 2y ago
  Scurvy? The history on that one is quite interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy#History
  - dekhn 2y ago
    Actually, that's a pretty good counterexample, and I guess it's fair to list a few other nutritional diseases as well (rickets, beriberi, pellagra) that have straightforward causes, and treatments with minimal side effects.

A family became scientists to find a cure and their solution is pretty simple: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PmEJaYKd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04PmEJaYKd0

dekhn 2y ago

There are no simple solutions to complex biology problems that work in a medical context.

piker 2y ago
…penicillin?
- dekhn 2y ago
  using a byproduct of mold to cure a bacterial infection isn't simple. Merely noticing it was a rare occurrence (Fleming got lucky with his dirty lab), it only works on gram positive bacteria, and importantly, use of penicillin leads to evolution of antibiotic resistance, reducing the utility of penicillin. That last point especially is a highly non-simple process. Like just about anything in medical biology, there is a simple narrative taught to the general public, and then there's the reality as it stands in modern medical research and practice. For prions, I'm sure people can find any number of ways to module prion activity in vitro, most of which won't work in vivo/in the real world, for messy complex reasons. To use machine learning parlance, a feature like the existence of a TED talk by the creators of a medical treatment being True highly correlates with the ineffectiveness of the treatment (same as "If published in Nature, it's almost certainly wrong!")
- nikolay 2y ago
  Aspirin?
  - dekhn 2y ago
    Aspirin causes stomach bleeding due to its anti-clotting effect due to nonselective binding and inhibition to COX-1 and COX-2; see the list of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin#Adverse_effects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirin#Adverse_effects to see all the complications that arise from this relatively innocuous drug. 43 deaths in the US in a single year (mostly people taking the drug as a poison). See details in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylate_poisoning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salicylate_poisoning showing the all the kinds of human biology aspirin interacts with that don't directly contribute to pain suppression. The main reason for fewer people dying from aspirin was a shift to other drugs.
    - dyauspitr 2y ago
      Millions of people use aspirin everyday to relieve aches and pains. 43 deaths is nothing compared to the benefits, especially since those people are intentionally overdosing with the intention of killing themselves.
      - thinkfaster 2y ago
        Some of us are explicitly forbidden to take aspirin by their Dr. so the population of asprin takers is biased towards a cohort for whom asprin is safe.
      - vaylian 2y ago
        I don't think that this is GP's point. The point is rather that biology is complex and solutions to biological problems are always complex even if they are accompanied by a simple narrative.
        FeepingCreature 2y ago
        Simple solutions can still have complex effects. There's no contradiction here.
    - nikolay 2y ago
      That's a huge misconception and poor science. In fact, enteric-coated aspirin is worse as it could cause bleeding in the intestines, which is worse. There are plenty of studies that show taking aspirin with vitamin C or DGL does not cause bleeding! I think taking it alongside collagen/gelatin also prevents bleeding. There was a sublingual form, which I cannot find (Fasprin). Also, there's Vazalore, which might be liposomal. I don't know, but the effervescent Aspirin C by Bayer is amazing! It works very well for gargles for sour throat, too!
tim333 2y ago
Scurvy? The history on that one is quite interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scurvy#History
- dekhn 2y ago
  Actually, that's a pretty good counterexample, and I guess it's fair to list a few other nutritional diseases as well (rickets, beriberi, pellagra) that have straightforward causes, and treatments with minimal side effects.