4 ms·

Why Are Housing Costs So High? The Elevator Can Explain Why

16 points by lxm 2y ago

bell-cot 2y ago
A tiny old church that I'm a friend of (Ohio, US) removed their bare-minimum stair lift chair - originally installed to help ill or infirm members up & down 6 steps - because the breakdowns and repairs and inspections and licensing got to be Just Too Much. Neither the old members trying to manage those steps sans chair, nor them remaining housebound and isolated on Sundays, are better "promote the general welfare" outcomes. But neither the industry nor state regulators seemed to care about anything beyond their own revenue streams.
- kylebenzle 2y ago
  Yes and that sounds like par for the course. The US, and Ohio in particular, is being taken over by and destroyed by the highest bidder. Ohio State University's hospital and modernization was bought and paid for by Jeffery Epstein's best friend and closest associate for over 10 years and we just pretend it didn't happen. They sold a farm field down the street to my new home to Amazon and it's been a dust cloud all summer. Our "family court" has been sold off or coopted by the Ohio Bar Association who now runs the courts like a personal income stream. Despite the Federal government telling us not to Ohio still proudly has dozens of private prisons and coincidentally one of the highest incarceration rates. We still have a debtors prison system for people late on child support payments but at the same time they refuse to enforce parental rights. They just sold off oil drilling/fracking rights to all of our state parks...
snakeyjake 2y ago
Neither elevators nor fire codes have a damn thing to do with housing costs. >A basic four-stop elevator costs about $158,000 in New York City Oh wow that's a lot. What's the final sticker price for a four-stop building in NYC? What percentage of that price is the elevator? Just the LAND for a garbage soulless Fast Casual over-1 at 150 Meserole Street cost $7.5 million: https://newyorkyimby.com/category/150-meserole-street https://newyorkyimby.com/category/150-meserole-street So the elevator's only ~2.5% of that cost and we haven't even demolished or built anything yet. My favorite is when people (these people, the Center for Building in North America) claim that the US's 2nd stairwell requirement is "killing affordable housing" and then I point out that the square footage of the 2nd stairwell is not enough to add an additional bedroom. It's all just property developers agitating to cheap out on their buildings while making one bedroom very slightly larger or adding a walk-in closet thus making it "premium" and allowing them to charge more.
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  Pretty sure the point of the article is that elevators is an example of how the construction industry has become very expensive in US not that elevators in themselves are the problem.
  - twelve40 2y ago
    maybe... construction is expensive, yes, but a bigger problem is that for example in my 'hood there are exactly 0 lots for sale. The sprawl model - which has been aggressively pursued for at least half a century - by now seems to have eaten up all the land in any sane commute reach. Elevators have been purposely avoided for many decades now and not because of their cost.
- otterley 2y ago
  > My favorite is when people (these people, the Center for Building in North America) claim that the US's 2nd stairwell requirement is "killing affordable housing" and then I point out that the square footage of the 2nd stairwell is not enough to add an additional bedroom. I don't think their concern is about the footprint associated with the second stairwell. I think it's that any additional building requirements not directly related to the primary purpose of housing -- whether it be a second stairwell or mandatory onsite parking -- add to the price of housing and thus decrease overall affordability.
- lxm 2y ago
  Between two elevators in my building (11 stories) at least one is always out of service for a few days. I attend HOA meetings, and like 8-10% of our ongoing budget is elevator maintenance. Few reasons according to the guy on HOA board: * the service companies are either Otis or an Otis dealer, so essentially 2-3 companies have an oligopoly on Los Angeles * all parts must come from Otis (which mattered during COVID supply chains, when you either paid Otis directly for faster service or waited forever for the part to arrive) * all shafts and mechanisms seem to be custom-built - there's no drop-in replacement service or alternative product (from likes of Mitsubishi or others) we can easily switch to It's a small industry with few dominant players designed on extracting maximum revenue. Servicing is pretty much mandatory, limited to a few authorized dealers, who know you have limited options.
victorbjorklund 2y ago
https://archive.is/u7Bp9 https://archive.is/u7Bp9

16 points by lxm 2y ago

A tiny old church that I'm a friend of (Ohio, US) removed their bare-minimum stair lift chair - originally installed to help ill or infirm members up & down 6 steps - because the breakdowns and repairs and inspections and licensing got to be Just Too Much. Neither the old members trying to manage those steps sans chair, nor them remaining housebound and isolated on Sundays, are better "promote the general welfare" outcomes. But neither the industry nor state regulators seemed to care about anything beyond their own revenue streams.

kylebenzle 2y ago
Yes and that sounds like par for the course. The US, and Ohio in particular, is being taken over by and destroyed by the highest bidder. Ohio State University's hospital and modernization was bought and paid for by Jeffery Epstein's best friend and closest associate for over 10 years and we just pretend it didn't happen. They sold a farm field down the street to my new home to Amazon and it's been a dust cloud all summer. Our "family court" has been sold off or coopted by the Ohio Bar Association who now runs the courts like a personal income stream. Despite the Federal government telling us not to Ohio still proudly has dozens of private prisons and coincidentally one of the highest incarceration rates. We still have a debtors prison system for people late on child support payments but at the same time they refuse to enforce parental rights. They just sold off oil drilling/fracking rights to all of our state parks...

snakeyjake 2y ago

Neither elevators nor fire codes have a damn thing to do with housing costs. >A basic four-stop elevator costs about $158,000 in New York City Oh wow that's a lot. What's the final sticker price for a four-stop building in NYC? What percentage of that price is the elevator? Just the LAND for a garbage soulless Fast Casual over-1 at 150 Meserole Street cost $7.5 million: https://newyorkyimby.com/category/150-meserole-street https://newyorkyimby.com/category/150-meserole-street So the elevator's only ~2.5% of that cost and we haven't even demolished or built anything yet. My favorite is when people (these people, the Center for Building in North America) claim that the US's 2nd stairwell requirement is "killing affordable housing" and then I point out that the square footage of the 2nd stairwell is not enough to add an additional bedroom. It's all just property developers agitating to cheap out on their buildings while making one bedroom very slightly larger or adding a walk-in closet thus making it "premium" and allowing them to charge more.

victorbjorklund 2y ago
Pretty sure the point of the article is that elevators is an example of how the construction industry has become very expensive in US not that elevators in themselves are the problem.
- twelve40 2y ago
  maybe... construction is expensive, yes, but a bigger problem is that for example in my 'hood there are exactly 0 lots for sale. The sprawl model - which has been aggressively pursued for at least half a century - by now seems to have eaten up all the land in any sane commute reach. Elevators have been purposely avoided for many decades now and not because of their cost.
otterley 2y ago
> My favorite is when people (these people, the Center for Building in North America) claim that the US's 2nd stairwell requirement is "killing affordable housing" and then I point out that the square footage of the 2nd stairwell is not enough to add an additional bedroom. I don't think their concern is about the footprint associated with the second stairwell. I think it's that any additional building requirements not directly related to the primary purpose of housing -- whether it be a second stairwell or mandatory onsite parking -- add to the price of housing and thus decrease overall affordability.
lxm 2y ago
Between two elevators in my building (11 stories) at least one is always out of service for a few days. I attend HOA meetings, and like 8-10% of our ongoing budget is elevator maintenance. Few reasons according to the guy on HOA board: * the service companies are either Otis or an Otis dealer, so essentially 2-3 companies have an oligopoly on Los Angeles * all parts must come from Otis (which mattered during COVID supply chains, when you either paid Otis directly for faster service or waited forever for the part to arrive) * all shafts and mechanisms seem to be custom-built - there's no drop-in replacement service or alternative product (from likes of Mitsubishi or others) we can easily switch to It's a small industry with few dominant players designed on extracting maximum revenue. Servicing is pretty much mandatory, limited to a few authorized dealers, who know you have limited options.

victorbjorklund 2y ago

https://archive.is/u7Bp9 https://archive.is/u7Bp9