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Why isn't there yet a "two clicks away unsubscribe" law? Unsubscribing from any service is two clicks away: one for unsubscribing and the second should be a mai

Why isn't there yet a "two clicks away unsubscribe" law? Unsubscribing from any service is two clicks away: one for unsubscribing and the second should be a mail with a link to confirm that you effectively want to unsubscribe. And you should receive another email confirming that you definitely unsubscribed. This button for unsubscribing should be visible at all times from whatever app/browser/GUI you're using. It is as simple as that. Why isn't this a solved problem yet?

ant6n 2y ago
you could do a one-click unsubscribe, but then set up a website where that button keeps jumping away from your mouse for 20 minutes, while it's showing you uplifting messages why in fact, you should continue with the subscription. Still, only one click! Or, follow this maze with your mouse pointer until the unsubscribe button in the middle. If you hover-move across a wall, you need to start from the beginning. Good luck!
- oefrha 2y ago
  Pretty sure when I unsubbed from Amazon Prime a few years back, I had to navigate three or four pages of “are you really sure…” where the primary button sometimes took me further and sometimes sent me back. It was fun. And afterwards my Roku TV box somehow managed to resub me twice even though I didn’t watch any Prime content (customer support rep said it was the Roku and I had no other explanation).
  - justinclift 2y ago
    > And afterwards my Roku TV box somehow managed to resub me twice even though I didn’t watch any Prime content ... Is that the kind of thing that a pet chewing on a remote control (or similar) could trigger?
    - oefrha 2y ago
      No idea. I just wanted the customer service rep to reverse the credit card charge (yeah I only found out from monthly review of credit card bill, pretty sure I never even got an email saying my subscription was reenabled) and cancel the subscription, and didn’t prod when that goal was achieved. After the second time I ditched the Roku altogether. IIRC I also did a sign-out-everywhere.
- bnegreve 2y ago
  > but then set up a website where that button keeps jumping away from your mouse for 20 minutes, while it's showing you uplifting messages why in fact, you should continue with the subscription. Still, only one click Most laws can be misinterpreted, it doesn't necessarily mean they are useless.
- jraph 2y ago
  This would follow the letter of the law, but not its spirit. It might not fly in court. IANAL.
- blantonl 2y ago
  you are a monster.
colejohnson66 2y ago
California actually passed a law requiring unsubscribing from a subscription to be as easy as subscribing to it. NY Times is infamous for requiring calling to unsubscribe, but if your billing address is in California, you can do it on the website.
- jraph 2y ago
  Such businesses deserve canceling customers to be as inefficient and costly as possible in the cancel call. "Ah, my name? I'll spell it out. It's a bit long and difficult to understand through a phone" "D like the first letter of De…o…xy…ri…bo…nu…cle…ic". A few seconds pass. "You can confirm you got it right? Right, D, D like Deoxyribonucleic, the first word in DNA. That's what you have in your cells. Okay, were was I? Let me start over… What, you are what you say? Ah, annoyed? It'd be easier on a form on your website you know… bear with me…"
  - dtech 2y ago
    While this sounds fun and satisfies our justice reflex, the only person you're "getting back at" here is a low paid call-center worker who you're causing stress by missing their targets and tanking their metrics, who has no power over decisions like this. It's the equivalent of trying to inconvenience BigStoreCo by harassing a register worker and something best avoided.
    - jraph 2y ago
      If everybody started doing it: - suddenly all low paid workers would miss the same targets, in which case no individual can be blamed anymore - the madness might stop rapidly because it would make the dark pattern worthless I sympathize with the low paid workers. I also don't like the fact that by that logic, businesses can just use low paid workers to protect themselves from the consequences of their dark patterns. Like, it's all too easy to go full evil and just put relatable human shields in front so nobody feels like lifting a finger. What are we supposed to do against this? Of course, it won't happen: the effective way of fixing this would be through law. Now, while this comment is serious, the previous one was more intended as humor.
willcipriano 2y ago
I think roughly the same rules around consent for sex (ie."ongoing enthusiastic consent") should also apply to money. They should have to actively ask "are you still using us?" if you aren't using the subscription ending it if you don't get back to them.
- tomp 2y ago
  [dead]
- Y_Y 2y ago
  Brings a whole new meaning to "sleeping giants"
beretguy 2y ago
> Why isn't there yet a "two clicks away unsubscribe" law? B̶r̶i̶b̶i̶n̶g̶ Lobbing.
- nooormal 2y ago
  Oh, that's just considered "tipping" now. What's the big deal, what could possibly go wrong?
dpkirchner 2y ago
IIRC Colorado has or had such a law. I took advantage of it to cancel Xbox Live back in the day by updating my billing address and then canceling the service (despite not living in Colorado).
- nottorp 2y ago
  Heh, you can't cancel xbox live online with a click? You have to call?
  - dpkirchner 2y ago
    This was way, way back in the early 360 days. I don't know what you have to do now.
tzs 2y ago
> This button for unsubscribing should be visible at all times from whatever app/browser/GUI you're using At all times? So movie streaming subscription services would have to have an unsubscribe button on the movie playback screen?! I can't see any reason it would not be sufficient to just require an unsubscribe button or link on the account management page.

ant6n 2y ago

you could do a one-click unsubscribe, but then set up a website where that button keeps jumping away from your mouse for 20 minutes, while it's showing you uplifting messages why in fact, you should continue with the subscription. Still, only one click! Or, follow this maze with your mouse pointer until the unsubscribe button in the middle. If you hover-move across a wall, you need to start from the beginning. Good luck!

oefrha 2y ago
Pretty sure when I unsubbed from Amazon Prime a few years back, I had to navigate three or four pages of “are you really sure…” where the primary button sometimes took me further and sometimes sent me back. It was fun. And afterwards my Roku TV box somehow managed to resub me twice even though I didn’t watch any Prime content (customer support rep said it was the Roku and I had no other explanation).
- justinclift 2y ago
  > And afterwards my Roku TV box somehow managed to resub me twice even though I didn’t watch any Prime content ... Is that the kind of thing that a pet chewing on a remote control (or similar) could trigger?
  - oefrha 2y ago
    No idea. I just wanted the customer service rep to reverse the credit card charge (yeah I only found out from monthly review of credit card bill, pretty sure I never even got an email saying my subscription was reenabled) and cancel the subscription, and didn’t prod when that goal was achieved. After the second time I ditched the Roku altogether. IIRC I also did a sign-out-everywhere.
bnegreve 2y ago
> but then set up a website where that button keeps jumping away from your mouse for 20 minutes, while it's showing you uplifting messages why in fact, you should continue with the subscription. Still, only one click Most laws can be misinterpreted, it doesn't necessarily mean they are useless.
jraph 2y ago
This would follow the letter of the law, but not its spirit. It might not fly in court. IANAL.
blantonl 2y ago
you are a monster.

colejohnson66 2y ago

California actually passed a law requiring unsubscribing from a subscription to be as easy as subscribing to it. NY Times is infamous for requiring calling to unsubscribe, but if your billing address is in California, you can do it on the website.

jraph 2y ago
Such businesses deserve canceling customers to be as inefficient and costly as possible in the cancel call. "Ah, my name? I'll spell it out. It's a bit long and difficult to understand through a phone" "D like the first letter of De…o…xy…ri…bo…nu…cle…ic". A few seconds pass. "You can confirm you got it right? Right, D, D like Deoxyribonucleic, the first word in DNA. That's what you have in your cells. Okay, were was I? Let me start over… What, you are what you say? Ah, annoyed? It'd be easier on a form on your website you know… bear with me…"
- dtech 2y ago
  While this sounds fun and satisfies our justice reflex, the only person you're "getting back at" here is a low paid call-center worker who you're causing stress by missing their targets and tanking their metrics, who has no power over decisions like this. It's the equivalent of trying to inconvenience BigStoreCo by harassing a register worker and something best avoided.
  - jraph 2y ago
    If everybody started doing it: - suddenly all low paid workers would miss the same targets, in which case no individual can be blamed anymore - the madness might stop rapidly because it would make the dark pattern worthless I sympathize with the low paid workers. I also don't like the fact that by that logic, businesses can just use low paid workers to protect themselves from the consequences of their dark patterns. Like, it's all too easy to go full evil and just put relatable human shields in front so nobody feels like lifting a finger. What are we supposed to do against this? Of course, it won't happen: the effective way of fixing this would be through law. Now, while this comment is serious, the previous one was more intended as humor.

willcipriano 2y ago

I think roughly the same rules around consent for sex (ie."ongoing enthusiastic consent") should also apply to money. They should have to actively ask "are you still using us?" if you aren't using the subscription ending it if you don't get back to them.

tomp 2y ago
[dead]
Y_Y 2y ago
Brings a whole new meaning to "sleeping giants"

beretguy 2y ago

> Why isn't there yet a "two clicks away unsubscribe" law? B̶r̶i̶b̶i̶n̶g̶ Lobbing.

nooormal 2y ago
Oh, that's just considered "tipping" now. What's the big deal, what could possibly go wrong?

dpkirchner 2y ago

IIRC Colorado has or had such a law. I took advantage of it to cancel Xbox Live back in the day by updating my billing address and then canceling the service (despite not living in Colorado).

nottorp 2y ago
Heh, you can't cancel xbox live online with a click? You have to call?
- dpkirchner 2y ago
  This was way, way back in the early 360 days. I don't know what you have to do now.

tzs 2y ago

> This button for unsubscribing should be visible at all times from whatever app/browser/GUI you're using At all times? So movie streaming subscription services would have to have an unsubscribe button on the movie playback screen?! I can't see any reason it would not be sufficient to just require an unsubscribe button or link on the account management page.