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DISCLAIMER: If you have back/spine problems and you delay surgery because you hope the problem would go away on its own, with healthy living, you might end up w

DISCLAIMER: If you have back/spine problems and you delay surgery because you hope the problem would go away on its own, with healthy living, you might end up with damaged/dead nerves which is irreparable damage, which even a delayed surgery cannot fix. With regards to for-profit medicine, this is why I hate all market based health insurance systems. Even if you are rich and get treated like a king, you still have to question whether your doctor/surgeon is trying to sell you a procedure. The only system that does not suffer from this issue is the NHS (e.g. UK) where the incentive is lacking. The debate about health care systems tends to focus on availability and coverage, but this for-profit perverse incentive is orthogonal to all that.

trilbyglens 2y ago
Classic anglophonic world view. Seems like people forget that literally all of Europe has universal healthcare, with many working far better than the NHS.
ulnarkressty 2y ago
This is not really true unless there's something _really_ wrong with your back. For run of the mill disk hernia the patient satisfaction scores at 1 year for surgery and conservative treatment are pretty much the same [0][1]. [0] - https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/12/e012938.short https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/12/e012938.short [1] - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00586-010-1603-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00586-010-1603-7
- wesapien 2y ago
  I've dealt with lower back issues for a long time. The worst of it was long behind me and I've been diligent enough to not have crippling events. My lower back hasn't felt as good and pain free as of today.I don't know if it was all the walking I've been doing (vacation) and the bag on my back (weird right). The biggest change was the level of stress after vacation. I haven't been on one for over 7 years. I feel much more relaxed these days but I can also tell that everyday this "stress bucket" is slowly getting filled by daily life and I have to dump it all out by doing something other than the ordinary. I'm not a super healthy eater but I'm conscientious about it. I'm not a gym goer or even home exerciser. Once in a while, I'd use my weights and do somebody weight exercises.I don't eat fruits and vegetables as much as one should. I also know that there is great variability in humans. I'm also much more aware of my body and what it needs as far as physical therapy exercises. I've a lot of time watching videos on physical therapy and back pain. I spend the most of my time at home walking on a treadmill while watching something on the TV.
throw73488 2y ago
> The only system that does not suffer from this issue is the NHS (e.g. UK Is that a joke? With NHS you have to wait to get GP appointments, wait several weeks for examination by specialists, more waiting in waiting list for surgery... The backlog for everything is huge! In NHS you can literally wait years for non life threatening surgeries.
- yungporko 2y ago
  you also have to deal with every person at every step of the way trying to gatekeep healthcare from you instead of trying to help you.
- damidekronik 2y ago
  Parent comments is still correct, NHS is free from the Financial Incentive problem. I don't think anyone claims the system is good, just this one aspect is correct.
  - tim333 2y ago
    They maybe have a bit of the opposite problem of avoiding treatments to save resources. That said it mostly works kind of ok.
  - throw73488 2y ago
    Very incorrect. NHS is still an health insurance company that is trying to save money by using their own doctors. There is a long history (20 years) of people who gave up, did their surgeries in France, and sued NHS for reimbursement. More recent stories are from EU, when NHS was part of unified health system (they should pay for medical procedures done in other EU countries to UK citizens). Dealing with NHS if you need surgery, is basically full time job. You have to navigate Kafka like administrative labyrinth. Sometimes you have to drive 10 hours, to other side of country, because the only specialist who takes new patients is in Scotland. NHS is doing everything it can, not to pay! If you have any problems and can do so, save your mental health, and just do medical tourism to Turkey, Malaysia or Thailand!
- rickydroll 2y ago
jimt1234 2y ago
I don't know about NHS, but I do know about Michael Jackson. He was a rich person and got treated like a king; and how did the for-profit health care system treat him? (It killed him.)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sethammons 2y ago
  A bed side and what appears to be an unethical doctor overdosed his meal ticket with a heavy duty medication to induce sleep. I don't think there is much to argue either way on for-profit medicine in that case.
- Gud 2y ago
  Ok, and the NHS let Jimmy Saville molest possibly hundreds of children. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28021488.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28021488.amp
Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 2y ago
> The only system that does not suffer from this issue is the NHS (e.g. UK) where the incentive is lacking. Why not mentionning France? It's pretty awesome in that regard

trilbyglens 2y ago

Classic anglophonic world view. Seems like people forget that literally all of Europe has universal healthcare, with many working far better than the NHS.

ulnarkressty 2y ago

This is not really true unless there's something _really_ wrong with your back. For run of the mill disk hernia the patient satisfaction scores at 1 year for surgery and conservative treatment are pretty much the same [0][1]. [0] - https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/12/e012938.short https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/12/e012938.short [1] - https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00586-010-1603-7 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00586-010-1603-7

wesapien 2y ago
I've dealt with lower back issues for a long time. The worst of it was long behind me and I've been diligent enough to not have crippling events. My lower back hasn't felt as good and pain free as of today.I don't know if it was all the walking I've been doing (vacation) and the bag on my back (weird right). The biggest change was the level of stress after vacation. I haven't been on one for over 7 years. I feel much more relaxed these days but I can also tell that everyday this "stress bucket" is slowly getting filled by daily life and I have to dump it all out by doing something other than the ordinary. I'm not a super healthy eater but I'm conscientious about it. I'm not a gym goer or even home exerciser. Once in a while, I'd use my weights and do somebody weight exercises.I don't eat fruits and vegetables as much as one should. I also know that there is great variability in humans. I'm also much more aware of my body and what it needs as far as physical therapy exercises. I've a lot of time watching videos on physical therapy and back pain. I spend the most of my time at home walking on a treadmill while watching something on the TV.

throw73488 2y ago

> The only system that does not suffer from this issue is the NHS (e.g. UK Is that a joke? With NHS you have to wait to get GP appointments, wait several weeks for examination by specialists, more waiting in waiting list for surgery... The backlog for everything is huge! In NHS you can literally wait years for non life threatening surgeries.

yungporko 2y ago
you also have to deal with every person at every step of the way trying to gatekeep healthcare from you instead of trying to help you.
damidekronik 2y ago
Parent comments is still correct, NHS is free from the Financial Incentive problem. I don't think anyone claims the system is good, just this one aspect is correct.
- tim333 2y ago
  They maybe have a bit of the opposite problem of avoiding treatments to save resources. That said it mostly works kind of ok.
- throw73488 2y ago
  Very incorrect. NHS is still an health insurance company that is trying to save money by using their own doctors. There is a long history (20 years) of people who gave up, did their surgeries in France, and sued NHS for reimbursement. More recent stories are from EU, when NHS was part of unified health system (they should pay for medical procedures done in other EU countries to UK citizens). Dealing with NHS if you need surgery, is basically full time job. You have to navigate Kafka like administrative labyrinth. Sometimes you have to drive 10 hours, to other side of country, because the only specialist who takes new patients is in Scotland. NHS is doing everything it can, not to pay! If you have any problems and can do so, save your mental health, and just do medical tourism to Turkey, Malaysia or Thailand!
rickydroll 2y ago

jimt1234 2y ago

I don't know about NHS, but I do know about Michael Jackson. He was a rich person and got treated like a king; and how did the for-profit health care system treat him? (It killed him.)

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sethammons 2y ago
A bed side and what appears to be an unethical doctor overdosed his meal ticket with a heavy duty medication to induce sleep. I don't think there is much to argue either way on for-profit medicine in that case.
Gud 2y ago
Ok, and the NHS let Jimmy Saville molest possibly hundreds of children. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28021488.amp https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28021488.amp

Ey7NFZ3P0nzAe 2y ago

> The only system that does not suffer from this issue is the NHS (e.g. UK) where the incentive is lacking. Why not mentionning France? It's pretty awesome in that regard