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I think it solves a problem that shouldn't exist: managing complex state in an operating system. OSes should be mostly immutable. Apps should own their state.

by api 2y ago

I think it solves a problem that shouldn't exist: managing complex state in an operating system. OSes should be mostly immutable. Apps should own their state. Everything else should be in a neat tidy box that is portable. Mobile almost gets this right. The idea of installing things "on" the OS needs to die, badly. It's a security and privacy nightmare because it means everything more or less has root, and it makes every OS install a special snowflake that is under the hood a giant mixed pile of shit.

akvadrako 2y ago
Image based OSes like Fedora silverblue are largely immutable. It's a much better model and think it's catching on.
TacticalCoder 2y ago
> ... because it means everything more or less has root, and it makes every OS install a special snowflake that is under the hood a giant mixed pile of shit. In many Linux distros systemd as PID 1 comes to mind...
- lmz 2y ago
  If anything systemd is a step against "a giant mixed pile of shit" in that the "shit" is single-source now as opposed to cobbled together from 10 different projects.
finnh 2y ago
For sure. Qubes OS is an interesting step in that direction. Mobile does mostly get it right - and yet the devices are single-user only, it's so odd. The fact that I can't share an iPad with my kid without needing to fully disable Messages, Photos, etc is crazy-making.
lexlash 2y ago
NixOS aside, Nix manages state _outside_ of / independent with respect to your operating system, which is why it's so damn useful. With Nix, I can build OCI images the exact same way every time; with Docker, I have to hope that the `apt update` thrown in at the top doesn't accidentally put me on a new major version of some dependency that breaks the rest of the script. I tend to deal with Dockerfiles written five or more years ago, so I will admit to bias here. I'll also admit that I don't really enjoy NixOS. It's neat enough on my headless devices but not something I'd want to try to daily drive; I'm more a fan of the Universal Blue / Project Bluefin approach.

by api 2y ago

akvadrako 2y ago

Image based OSes like Fedora silverblue are largely immutable. It's a much better model and think it's catching on.

TacticalCoder 2y ago

> ... because it means everything more or less has root, and it makes every OS install a special snowflake that is under the hood a giant mixed pile of shit. In many Linux distros systemd as PID 1 comes to mind...

lmz 2y ago
If anything systemd is a step against "a giant mixed pile of shit" in that the "shit" is single-source now as opposed to cobbled together from 10 different projects.

finnh 2y ago

For sure. Qubes OS is an interesting step in that direction. Mobile does mostly get it right - and yet the devices are single-user only, it's so odd. The fact that I can't share an iPad with my kid without needing to fully disable Messages, Photos, etc is crazy-making.

lexlash 2y ago

NixOS aside, Nix manages state _outside_ of / independent with respect to your operating system, which is why it's so damn useful. With Nix, I can build OCI images the exact same way every time; with Docker, I have to hope that the `apt update` thrown in at the top doesn't accidentally put me on a new major version of some dependency that breaks the rest of the script. I tend to deal with Dockerfiles written five or more years ago, so I will admit to bias here. I'll also admit that I don't really enjoy NixOS. It's neat enough on my headless devices but not something I'd want to try to daily drive; I'm more a fan of the Universal Blue / Project Bluefin approach.