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Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wi

Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, even culturally it seem to have just adopted the worst consumerism of the west and transplanted it into their native culture. I am not sure what money could even compell me to live there.

beaglesss 2y ago
Dubai has far looser work visa and banking laws. And low taxation. Infrastructure may not be as cheap but it is accessible. If your goal is to get in make money and leave Dubai might be a lot more approachable from both company owner and employee perspective.
- constantcrying 2y ago
  >If your goal is to get in make money and leave Dubai might be a lot more approachable from both company owner and employee perspective. Sure, but if we are talking about a place to move to and live the US is definitely my preferred choice.
  - beaglesss 2y ago
    Makes perfect sense. It's a different target. In terms of being able to start a business up and bring people in from about anywhere, get them working and some semi-modern infrastructure with not a ton of regulatory and immigration hassle though I struggle to think of an easier place to do it. There are definitely a fair number of EU citizens exploiting this and UAE tax residency.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    Let’s be real though: the US may -very- quickly move in the bad direction, rights-wise, come November. The SCOTUS has also demonstrated its willingness to overturn decades of precedent as soon as they sufficiently tilted that way ideologically. I don’t know if you can strongly count on the US remaining a safe home base when it comes to rights for gay people, minorities, and women, at least in the medium term. I’d use caution.
    - the_optimist 2y ago
      This comment is pretty obviously spreading “fear, uncertainty, and doubt.”
  - tharmas 2y ago
    Where in the USA? There's California and NYC. The rest is either economically depressed or a poor cultural fit. Sure, theres a few pockets of exceptions too, Pacific NW, Arizona, Colorado etc.
    - fingerlocks 2y ago
      So the entire West Coast, south west, and north east? The most desirable and populated areas where the majority of the population live?
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  Bluntly put, but I'm curious other business-friendly areas there are in & around Europe.
fennecbutt 2y ago
As a gay dev I would never move to somewhere like Dubai. Fuck that.
- hi_dang_ 2y ago
  [dead]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- wkat4242 2y ago
  You're right. Why move to a country that thinks you're an abomination? Even though I'm sure you're pretty much immune to persecution as a high-skill expat, even having to hide who you really are too keep the peace just isn't worth it. I'm not really gay but hetflex/polyamorous and a bit queer and I would not be comfortable being myself there either. Even in the bad areas in Holland I get slurs thrown at me.
mikkyang 2y ago
A lot of people can’t move to the US. Plenty of my friends were moved to Canada after they couldn’t get H1B renewals and now even non-India/China waitlists for green card applications are so long that you can’t just switch from a student visa to an application for permanent residence like you used to.
m463 2y ago
I thought this idea was folks moved to saudi arabia, lived apart from the general population, and left later with basically all their salaries banked. Of course that's the life plan for most folks who move for work.
ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
Tax free income. Live there for 7 years. Retire.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  When you bring that tax free income home it's no longer tax free of course...
  - xyzzy123 2y ago
    As I understand it, it's mainly US citizens who are subject to citizenship rather than residence based taxation. So I think you can take money earned while living overseas back to most European countries without paying additional income tax.
wkat4242 2y ago
I would not pick the US either. High crime, high healthcare cost, low social security. People carrying guns everywhere. No way. Of course I know there are huge regional differences but I don't know of any city (it would have to be a city for me) that I'd be comfortable with. In fact I've declined to visit even when I've had the opportunity to do a business trip though there wasn't much pressure on it. I could just go or leave it, no strings attached and I was happy to leave it. I'm very socialist, atheist and progressive, it just isn't my kinda place. In fact I often get recruiters pushing me relocation offers though I clearly state in my profile that I only want to work in my city or 100% remote. Even if it's an amazing career opportunity I don't care. I get one a week or so that still tries, comes with working in AI for a major enterprise I guess. They're all scrambling for people now. I wouldn't want to be in that kind of role anyway where the goal is to "Do something with AI QUICK that makes investors happy, we don't care what it is!!!". I don't play that game.
RestlessMind 2y ago
> Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Maybe some of those Europeans are from Russia or Belarus, and are not welcomed in the US.
- TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
  Or just because getting visa to US is kafquese style difficult.

beaglesss 2y ago

Dubai has far looser work visa and banking laws. And low taxation. Infrastructure may not be as cheap but it is accessible. If your goal is to get in make money and leave Dubai might be a lot more approachable from both company owner and employee perspective.

constantcrying 2y ago
>If your goal is to get in make money and leave Dubai might be a lot more approachable from both company owner and employee perspective. Sure, but if we are talking about a place to move to and live the US is definitely my preferred choice.
- beaglesss 2y ago
  Makes perfect sense. It's a different target. In terms of being able to start a business up and bring people in from about anywhere, get them working and some semi-modern infrastructure with not a ton of regulatory and immigration hassle though I struggle to think of an easier place to do it. There are definitely a fair number of EU citizens exploiting this and UAE tax residency.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  Let’s be real though: the US may -very- quickly move in the bad direction, rights-wise, come November. The SCOTUS has also demonstrated its willingness to overturn decades of precedent as soon as they sufficiently tilted that way ideologically. I don’t know if you can strongly count on the US remaining a safe home base when it comes to rights for gay people, minorities, and women, at least in the medium term. I’d use caution.
  - the_optimist 2y ago
    This comment is pretty obviously spreading “fear, uncertainty, and doubt.”
- tharmas 2y ago
  Where in the USA? There's California and NYC. The rest is either economically depressed or a poor cultural fit. Sure, theres a few pockets of exceptions too, Pacific NW, Arizona, Colorado etc.
  - fingerlocks 2y ago
    So the entire West Coast, south west, and north east? The most desirable and populated areas where the majority of the population live?
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
Bluntly put, but I'm curious other business-friendly areas there are in & around Europe.

fennecbutt 2y ago

As a gay dev I would never move to somewhere like Dubai. Fuck that.

hi_dang_ 2y ago
[dead]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wkat4242 2y ago
You're right. Why move to a country that thinks you're an abomination? Even though I'm sure you're pretty much immune to persecution as a high-skill expat, even having to hide who you really are too keep the peace just isn't worth it. I'm not really gay but hetflex/polyamorous and a bit queer and I would not be comfortable being myself there either. Even in the bad areas in Holland I get slurs thrown at me.

mikkyang 2y ago

A lot of people can’t move to the US. Plenty of my friends were moved to Canada after they couldn’t get H1B renewals and now even non-India/China waitlists for green card applications are so long that you can’t just switch from a student visa to an application for permanent residence like you used to.

m463 2y ago

I thought this idea was folks moved to saudi arabia, lived apart from the general population, and left later with basically all their salaries banked. Of course that's the life plan for most folks who move for work.

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago

Tax free income. Live there for 7 years. Retire.

wkat4242 2y ago
When you bring that tax free income home it's no longer tax free of course...
- xyzzy123 2y ago
  As I understand it, it's mainly US citizens who are subject to citizenship rather than residence based taxation. So I think you can take money earned while living overseas back to most European countries without paying additional income tax.

wkat4242 2y ago

I would not pick the US either. High crime, high healthcare cost, low social security. People carrying guns everywhere. No way. Of course I know there are huge regional differences but I don't know of any city (it would have to be a city for me) that I'd be comfortable with. In fact I've declined to visit even when I've had the opportunity to do a business trip though there wasn't much pressure on it. I could just go or leave it, no strings attached and I was happy to leave it. I'm very socialist, atheist and progressive, it just isn't my kinda place. In fact I often get recruiters pushing me relocation offers though I clearly state in my profile that I only want to work in my city or 100% remote. Even if it's an amazing career opportunity I don't care. I get one a week or so that still tries, comes with working in AI for a major enterprise I guess. They're all scrambling for people now. I wouldn't want to be in that kind of role anyway where the goal is to "Do something with AI QUICK that makes investors happy, we don't care what it is!!!". I don't play that game.

RestlessMind 2y ago

> Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Maybe some of those Europeans are from Russia or Belarus, and are not welcomed in the US.

TheLoafOfBread 2y ago
Or just because getting visa to US is kafquese style difficult.