6 ms·
I think people just have very different tolerances for latency and slowness. I keep trying different editors (including VS Code), and I always end up going bac
by the_duke 2y ago
I think people just have very different tolerances for latency and slowness.
I keep trying different editors (including VS Code), and I always end up going back to Neovim because everything else just feels sluggish, to the point where it annoys me so much I'm willing to put up with all the configuration burden of Neovim because of it.
I tried out Zed and it actually feels fast enough for me to consider switching.
- whalesalad 2y agoSublime Text 3 is still one of my favorite editors. I use VSCode lately because of its excellent "Remote SSH" integration - but when it comes to latency sublime has it beat. Zed does not feel fast on my machine, which is a 13900K/128gb ram. It is running in xwayland though, so that could be part of the problem. It feels identical to vscode.
- correct-horse 2y ago| It is running in xwayland though It definitely isn't on my system, and I did not touch the configs at all; are you sure about that?
- whalesalad 2y agoFairly positive due to blurry cursors, but I have no way to verify.
- ndiddy 2y agoIf you run xeyes and the eyes follow your cursor when it's above the application you want to test, it's running under xwayland. If they don't follow your cursor, the application is running under native Wayland.
- 369548684892826 2y agofinally a use for xeyes?
- ndiddy 2y agoI don't use vanilla xeyes but I use the Window Maker dockapp version (https://bstern.org/wmeyes/ https://bstern.org/wmeyes/) to make it easier to find my cursor on the screen.
- shrimp_emoji 2y agoHa. KDE 6 has something like if you jiggle the cursor a certain way, it temporarily grows larger. Better than Windows's function of "hide all my windows"...
- whalesalad 2y agoI think every OS has this feature. Sometimes it is hidden in an accessibility menu and needs to be turned on.
- BrandoElFollito 2y agoPressing some key a few times in Windows highlights your cursor. I just can't remember what it was (Ctrl I think)
- whalesalad 2y agoWelp, looks like it is running native wayland yet the cursors are blurry. The only time I have ever experienced that is when an app is running under xwayland.
- executesorder66 2y agoIf you run xlsclients it will list all applications running through xwayland. [0] https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/xorg-xlsclients/ https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/xorg-xlsclients/
- whalesalad 2y agoOooh, thank you this is very convenient. Confirmed zed is not listed here.
- wheresmyshadow 2y agoSublime Text gang, raise up. I was always a fan of Sublime Text and I moved away from it once because VSC felt more "hassle-free". The extensions just worked, I didn't need to go through endless JSON files to configure things, I even uncluttered its interface but at the end of the day I returned to good old Sublime Text. Now with LSPs it requires way less tinkering with plugins. I only wish it had just a little bit more UI customizability for plugins to use (different panes etc). Maybe with Sublime Text 5 if that ever comes. Also about the speed: VSC is fast but in comparison... Sublime Text is just insta-fast.
- ElectronBadger 2y agoI'm all for Sublime Text and Merge, my daily drivers for all kinds of writing..
- g8oz 2y agoI feel the same way about Notepad++
- whalesalad 2y agonotepad++ is a respectable editor but sublime defeats it at everything except price.
- ziml77 2y agoST4 is my go-to for quickly viewing and editing individual files. It really is instant compared to VSC. I don't really run ST with any complex plugins though and leave cases where I want those for VSC. The ones I have installed right now are just extra syntax highlighting and Filter Lines (which I find very handy for progressively filtering down logs)
- whalesalad 2y agoI still use ST for opening huge files. 9 times out of 10 if a huge file cannot be opened in any other editor, I will open it in subl and it will be just fine.
- jwells89 2y agoSublime's focused/minimalist UI is nice. VS Code sometimes feels like it tries to do too much. My ideal editor would probably be something like a variation on Sublime Text that's modeled more closely after TextMate while keeping the bits that make Sublime better (like the command palette).
- whalesalad 2y agoSublime is the better Textmate. What would you do to subl to make it more like mate? I used textmate for years and years before switching to ST and it was a drop-in replacement.
- jwells89 2y agoThe two are pretty close, but between the two TextMate feels more like a golden era OS X desktop app thanks to several small differences and tiny Mac-isms, and I'd like Sublime to have that feel too.
- the_other 2y agoI also feel TextMate had the nicer overall UX. When I first tried Sublime, TextMate had the better text rendering (IMO). Sublime has more features but still doesn’t feel as slick somehow. I’ve recently returned to Sublime from VSC. I prefer VSC’s UI for following links to definitons/references, but in most other ways I prefer Sublime’s nimbleness.
- frou_dh 2y agoNot that this was necessarily better in terms of capabilities, but TextMate had a very pleasing Unix-style extension model where there was no mandated language and extension commands used scripts/executables written in any language. There was even a nice graphical editor for fine-tuning exactly what input they would be given and how their output would be acted upon. TextMate was very much "Mac OS X UI sensibilities combined with Unix power", whereas ST pretty much has its own self-contained philosophy that's then brought to Mac/Windows/Linux in a slick way.
- samatman 2y agoI'm begrudgingly stuck with VSCode because of language support in the smaller-community languages I work with, but any time it starts being a dog (and it doesn't take much, think a 20MiB test data file) I switch back for that purpose. I'm also never letting it anywhere near a merge again, after the worst merge in my years of using git. Sublime Merge doesn't give me the same warm feelings as Sublime Text, but it works, and it won't choke on a big patch and apply a huge deletion without showing it to me first.
- barnabee 2y agoI use Helix and feel the same way. The pickers/fuzzy finder particularly have no equal for speed in any editor I’ve found. (Zed seems pretty fast but I didn’t get on well enough with it to find out how it performs with more serious use.) fwiw I’ve also found the configuration overhead much lower with Helix than for pretty much any other editor I’ve seriously used.
- danielvaughn 2y agoThis makes me want to use Helix, because while I love the idea of a terminal editor, I'm not the kind of person to whittle away a day screwing around with my config files.
- zamalek 2y agoHelix has been stalled for a few months, and there are issues that make it frustrating to use at times. For example, :Ex and friends have been relegated to the plugin system (the root cause of the stall, it hasn't been merged). I still prefer it to the config overhead of nvim (as well as the kakoune-style movements!), but the paper cuts have hit a threshold and I've started writing my own text editor (I'd probably use Zed, were it not for lack of kakoune movement support): https://youtu.be/Nzaba0bCMdo?si=00k0D6ZfOUF8OLME https://youtu.be/Nzaba0bCMdo?si=00k0D6ZfOUF8OLME
- dorian-graph 2y agoStalled how? There was a release a couple of months ago. There's another on the way. There are regular changes merged in. There's been foundational changes (events) made to enable new features. The plugins are being worked on, and whilst the speed may not be for you, that doesn't mean its stalled?
- spiderice 2y agoThe Helix community is the worst part about Helix. Especially the not so benevolent dictator of the project. Way too many comments like “if you don’t like how it’s done go use a different editor” instead of listening to feedback. That’s fine if they don’t care about adoption (they publicly say they don’t), but an actively hostile community doesn’t give me confidence in the editor, despite it being quite nice.
- satvikpendem 2y agoZed is still quite a bit slower than Neovim in my experience.
- ungamedplayer 2y agoNeovim is quite a bit slower than cat and echo.. in my experience.
- elbear 2y agoInteresting. That tells me there's something wrong with my neovim config. When I open a file for the first time, it takes some time before it shows the contents of the file. It's not even a big config, but maybe I'm using a plugin that slows things down or something.
- satvikpendem 2y agoTry using Neovim without loading a config, just like a fresh install, and see how it is.
- elbear 2y agoYeah, it's due to something in my config.
- hn92726819 2y ago> people just have very different tolerances for latency and slowness I've honestly never considered this and it's genius. I have always been surprised when people recommend kitty as a "fast" terminal when it takes 200ms (python interpreter) to start up, which is unbearable to me. But yeah, people sometimes just open a couple and see speed in other areas that I don't care about.
- cqqxo4zV46cp 2y agoIt’s not genius. It’s just very appealing to those on the side of wanting something faster, because - like all topics like this - everyone is always looking for subtle ways to signal themselves as somehow patrician. “Oh, well, some people just want more ownership of their computer, that’s why I use Linux :)”, is similarly thought-terminating. The conversation shouldn’t end there.
- kaba0 2y agoI would actually say that this is more of a system/OS issue to a point. Why doesn’t my OS keep such often-used programs in memory, simple opening a new window when clicked, like mobile OSs do? Just because desktop hardware can get away with a lot more, I believe that making programs go to a background mode, and pausing its thread would make everything so much smoother with zero, or even beneficial effect on memory/battery consumption.
- Fluorescence 2y ago> I think people just have very different tolerances for latency and slowness. I wonder if it's because of a form of "touch typing". I'm not really looking at text appearing as I type. My fingers work off an internal buffer while my mind is planning the next problem. If not so deep in thought to almost be blind, I am reading other docs / code as I type. I am not an ultra fast typist but if I mistype, I can feel it and don't need the visual feedback to know it. I might be this way because I am old and have used tools with lag you measure in seconds. I only care about latency if it interrupts me and I have to wait and that's typically not typing but heavier operations. I am utterly intolerant to animations. I don't want less I want zero, instant action. I don't want janky ass "smooth scrolling" I want crisp instant scrolling. I have no idea why animations are even popular. Some of the text-editor latency discussion reminds me of high screen refresh rates for office work. When people "check the refresh rate" they have to do that violent wiggling of window to actually have large content moving faster enough to see a difference. You have to look for it to then get upset about it. The worse case would be if it's more of an illusion like fancy wines - a fiction driven by context. Lie to someone that an editor is an electron app and they will complain about the latency. Software judgement also has toxic fashion and tribal aspects. Something unfashionable will accrue unjustified complaints and something cool or "on your team" will be defended from them. I'm reminded of Apple fans making all sorts of claims about rendering unaware that they were using Apple laptops that shipped not running at their natural resolution and visibly blurry. Your lying eyes can't beat what the heart wants to believe.