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Interesting, but the website still does the usual thing of pushing people to the sign-up page without giving much information. If you're pitch is "we are aggres

by ajb 2y ago

Interesting, but the website still does the usual thing of pushing people to the sign-up page without giving much information. If you're pitch is "we are aggressively honest" then an an indication of the jobs available seems like a good idea. Established recruitment firms list them all. I know it's tough establishing a two sided market, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when companies waste my time by inviting me to sign up and give a bunch of data, only to then then be told things like "We're not in your country yet" or even "We've put you on a waiting list".

ajkjk 2y ago
They do seem comparatively honest otherwise, but, I agree. More honesty only helps (the users).
griftrejection 2y ago
[dead]
timr 2y ago
> Interesting, but the website still does the usual thing of pushing people to the sign-up page without giving much information. If you're pitch is "we are aggressively honest" then an an indication of the jobs available seems like a good idea. Established recruitment firms list them all. No, they don't. In fact, the opposite is usually true: established recruiting firms will keep the company name pretty quiet, and only reveal it on outreach to specific candidates. Just because someone doesn't list that kind of information on the homepage does not automatically mean "dishonest". It's very common for "allow my company's name to appear on your website" to be a negotiated item in a partnership contract. Getting it approved can require involving people all the way up to the CEO. The juice often isn't worth the squeeze, and the companies you can get to agree to it are the ones you least care about putting on the website anyway. Particularly for recruiting agencies working on contingency, I can easily see why clients wouldn't want their partners to plaster their open reqs + brand on the front page of the website.
- ajb 2y ago
  They don't list company names. That's why I didn't say they list company names. Generally, they list everything but the company name.
  - timr 2y ago
    Well, ok...but I'm not sure "software engineer at a company" is particularly trust-building...
    - ajb 2y ago
      There's a bit more signal than that. Also, it's harder for them to try and sell you into any random role, as you can tell that they are doing it when it doesn't match the description you were interested in. On first look, though, unfortunately now basically any website content could have been made by GenAI. That looks to be what we're living with from now on :-(
rachofsunshine 2y ago
This is a fair criticism. You kind of hit why we don't - established firms list them all. We're not established yet, we're a baby deer trying to take a few steps through the forest. I would like to say that "not actively calling attention to our weaknesses in a way that is detrimental to users on both sides" is different from lying, but I think you could reasonably think differently. Since you asked: we have two roles currently hiring, and one with a contract out (although I think it's <50-50 to actually get signed, they've been extremely difficult to get responses from). We work primarily with engineers and roles in the US (both because that's where we are located and because that's where the revenue needed to make this model work can be found. However, we're not closed to engineers abroad. One of the roles hiring right now is open to remote in most of the world (they prefer not the EU for time-zone reasons), the other is in-office in New York City. If your criterion is "I don't want to sign up for this unless it'll get me a lot of jobs right now", well...don't. It won't, not yet. The pitch right now is "if you want to see this thing exist and would like a job if we can find you one, give it a shot, you've got nothing to lose".
- ajb 2y ago
  Well, okay, but turn it round: what do you have to lose by listing the jobs? Some people will be convinced to sign up without them, but if you list them, some additional people will sign because they are interested in those jobs. Maybe some that would have given you their CV would be put off if they see only listings for jobs they don't match - but they don't match them, so they're not going to help your business any time soon anyway. So: the ones you gain by not listing don't help you, and the ones you lose are the ones that would. Having only a couple of jobs just makes you look small, not weak. But there are many small recruiting forms that do well - for example, one guy who I've used, Mark Ashton, only listed a couple of roles on his website[1]. But when I was a hirer he was still a great recruiter who found candidates that were matches, because he knew the market. As an individual, I still go to his website to see if there's anything of interest. (Okay, he seems to have changed his website and it doesn't show any jobs, so not as good a piece of evidence as I thought. But probably that's because he doesn't have a client right now, rather than because he wouldn't list them). [1] https://the1stconnection.co.uk/ https://the1stconnection.co.uk/

by ajb 2y ago

ajkjk 2y ago

They do seem comparatively honest otherwise, but, I agree. More honesty only helps (the users).

griftrejection 2y ago

[dead]

timr 2y ago

> Interesting, but the website still does the usual thing of pushing people to the sign-up page without giving much information. If you're pitch is "we are aggressively honest" then an an indication of the jobs available seems like a good idea. Established recruitment firms list them all. No, they don't. In fact, the opposite is usually true: established recruiting firms will keep the company name pretty quiet, and only reveal it on outreach to specific candidates. Just because someone doesn't list that kind of information on the homepage does not automatically mean "dishonest". It's very common for "allow my company's name to appear on your website" to be a negotiated item in a partnership contract. Getting it approved can require involving people all the way up to the CEO. The juice often isn't worth the squeeze, and the companies you can get to agree to it are the ones you least care about putting on the website anyway. Particularly for recruiting agencies working on contingency, I can easily see why clients wouldn't want their partners to plaster their open reqs + brand on the front page of the website.

ajb 2y ago
They don't list company names. That's why I didn't say they list company names. Generally, they list everything but the company name.
- timr 2y ago
  Well, ok...but I'm not sure "software engineer at a company" is particularly trust-building...
  - ajb 2y ago
    There's a bit more signal than that. Also, it's harder for them to try and sell you into any random role, as you can tell that they are doing it when it doesn't match the description you were interested in. On first look, though, unfortunately now basically any website content could have been made by GenAI. That looks to be what we're living with from now on :-(

rachofsunshine 2y ago

This is a fair criticism. You kind of hit why we don't - established firms list them all. We're not established yet, we're a baby deer trying to take a few steps through the forest. I would like to say that "not actively calling attention to our weaknesses in a way that is detrimental to users on both sides" is different from lying, but I think you could reasonably think differently. Since you asked: we have two roles currently hiring, and one with a contract out (although I think it's <50-50 to actually get signed, they've been extremely difficult to get responses from). We work primarily with engineers and roles in the US (both because that's where we are located and because that's where the revenue needed to make this model work can be found. However, we're not closed to engineers abroad. One of the roles hiring right now is open to remote in most of the world (they prefer not the EU for time-zone reasons), the other is in-office in New York City. If your criterion is "I don't want to sign up for this unless it'll get me a lot of jobs right now", well...don't. It won't, not yet. The pitch right now is "if you want to see this thing exist and would like a job if we can find you one, give it a shot, you've got nothing to lose".

ajb 2y ago
Well, okay, but turn it round: what do you have to lose by listing the jobs? Some people will be convinced to sign up without them, but if you list them, some additional people will sign because they are interested in those jobs. Maybe some that would have given you their CV would be put off if they see only listings for jobs they don't match - but they don't match them, so they're not going to help your business any time soon anyway. So: the ones you gain by not listing don't help you, and the ones you lose are the ones that would. Having only a couple of jobs just makes you look small, not weak. But there are many small recruiting forms that do well - for example, one guy who I've used, Mark Ashton, only listed a couple of roles on his website[1]. But when I was a hirer he was still a great recruiter who found candidates that were matches, because he knew the market. As an individual, I still go to his website to see if there's anything of interest. (Okay, he seems to have changed his website and it doesn't show any jobs, so not as good a piece of evidence as I thought. But probably that's because he doesn't have a client right now, rather than because he wouldn't list them). [1] https://the1stconnection.co.uk/ https://the1stconnection.co.uk/