6 ms·

Family fight Samsung over fridge odour they say caused dizziness and memory loss

41 points by phs318u 2y ago

ryandrake 2y ago
> "As a consumer advocate, it's rare to see deeds of release with gag clauses — which is what this is." I guess that offer is no longer valid since the fight hit the news. I wonder if we'll see more and more of these attempts to silence customers, as 1. companies get bigger and more powerful, and 2. regular people's ability to broadcast company wrongdoing over social media grows.
glzone1 2y ago
Some context. Refrigerator was 4 years old and out of stated warranty period Refrigerator not sold to them by samsung or installed by samsung but by another party ("JB Hi-Fi"). Despite being out of warranty, family offered a refund - they declined it. An expert has called Samsungs behavior "concerning and unfair". Notes: Plenty of folks ignore almost all maintenance steps (cleaning coils, filter changes etc). Pulling the covers and looking around and cleaning even 1x per year would help longevity and catch problems earlier in many cases. Having purchased appliances both personally and for a business - first call is usually to the store that sold us the item. These things are the one thing we get an extended warranty on. The installers are absolutely not licensed plumbers or electricians! I wouldn't be surprised if a fair bit of damage is caused just in getting these items to their locations and installed. They are heavy and awkward. Ask the repair tech who comes for first repair what most common issue is they are repairing - they often know right away (because they stock the parts etc etc). Some are avoidable / manageable.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
  The issue here isn't the cost of the fridge, it's the health impact. Declining a mere refund (that almost certainly comes with a waiver on other claims in addition to the gag clause) is the only reasonable thing to do, and I doubt that being out of warranty absolves Samsung from liability if they sold a dangerous product.
  - ars 2y ago
    How do you know there's a health impact, or that this is a dangerous product? The article has nothing supporting either of those claims in it. The oil they use in refrigerators stinks to high heaven, and that's about it. "POE that has been exposed to moisture can emit a strong odor which I would say is closer to dirty socks".
    - throwaway346434 2y ago
      https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant-poisoning https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant...
      - ars 2y ago
        Those symptoms are mixing refrigerants, fumigants, and the frostbite from refrigerants expanding. It means nothing in the context of this article. The refrigerant at hand here is R-134a and has zero health risks, in fact it's used in inhalers.
    - gpm 2y ago
      > the company wasn't able to tell him what the chemical was or whether it could be harmful. Odd how you are confident that you know what the chemical is when the company that manufactured the product doesn't. And you don't need to know that there's a health impact to decline this settlement, you need to not know that there isn't. If there's even a small risk it's an extremely lowball offer. Especially given that according to another commenter here Australian law likely entitles them to that much without the NDA and release of liability.
      - zihotki 2y ago
        The company knows what is in there. The company doesn't know what exactly they smelled since that smell is a product of chemical reaction between refrigerant, oil, plastic and electronics. The refrigerant itself, as it's mentioned in the article, doesn't smell.
- stemlord 2y ago
  The whole article is about the lack of transparency on a situation involving a product Samsung designed which may or may not have serious health consequences, not about return policies
  - glzone1 2y ago
    Is Samsung not using R-134a or R600a for refrigerant? This usually depends on market and regulations.
- throwaway346434 2y ago
  Australian consumer law means you generally don't need to bother with the "extended warranty" scam: https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advice/your-rights/articles/extended-warranties-investigation-survey https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advic... A fridge has to be of acceptable quality, safe, and one of the tests applied is durability - how long would an average consumer expect the product to last? Fridges are commonly expected to last 6-12 years (ATO, consumer group advice)
  - astrec 2y ago
    Correct. Strictly speaking Australian consumers don't really need a warranty, which is a voluntary undertaking by a business to guarantee certain rights, unless that warranty exceeds those guarantees provided for in Australian consumer law. In this case the family is automatically entitled to repair, replacement, refund or cancellation for a reasonable time, where "reasonable" depends on the product or service as determined by the ACCC or the courts.
    - gruez 2y ago
      >where "reasonable" depends on the product or service as determined by the ACCC or the courts. Is there a table of warranty lengths by product published by the ACCC? If not it seems like a regulatory nightmare because neither consumers nor manufacturer knows what their rights/obligations are. At least with standard warranties you know what you're getting into.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - rpy 2y ago
        There isn’t a definitive list, only vague guidelines: https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/inline-files/acl-guidance-durability.pdf https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/inline-files/ac... The price you paid relative to comparable products factors into it - more expensive goods are expected to last longer. If you and the manufacturer disagree, you can always take it to tribunal to get a decision (and manufacturers never want it to get there so are motivated to resolve your concern before it comes to that).
- tomxor 2y ago
  This is a safety issue, warranty is not relevant. Samsung also recalled a huge number of out of warranty phones due to significant safety risk of bad batteries. This should be investigated as a safety issue.
- throwway120385 2y ago
  Installers don't need to be licensed plumbers or electricians. A refrigerator is a huge self-contained "appliance" with a power cord that is designed to be inserted into a wall receptacle and water plumbing connections that are designed to be installed similarly to a clothes washing machine. You can literally buy one yourself, screw the water connection(if needed) on and plug it into the wall. The only things you should not let the installer do is put a tap on a water line for the fridge or add or modify the receptacle. But provided you've already had a plumber or electrician in to do those things there's no need to spend the extra money to pay a tradesperson to open the refrigerator box and plug it in. And to wit, every single refrigerator I've used has recommended maintenance that nobody ever does, and they have still lasted multiple decades. You don't even actually have to change the compressor oil like they tell you you should.
- stahtops 2y ago
  How is it relevant where they bought it or who installed it? If there was a problem with install, you would expect the failure to show up early, not five years later. You mention maintenance items… There’s no reason a fridge sold in 2019 couldn’t include maintenance monitoring and a 7-segment error display. The filter needs a change? The coil is hot? Ok tell the human. My Miele washer and dryer do it. Samsung appliances are garbage, I would never buy another one. I bought a $3000 fridge from them and I can only assume the ice maker was, at best, designed by someone with an MBA. Instead of having a cavity that is part of the mold (like a previous model), they just bolted it in to the fridge side. Obviously humid air leaks in and ices it over every week.
  - glzone1 2y ago
    Hahah.. "How is it relevant where they bought it or who installed it?" Very relevant in many cases. Maybe you have experts installing things who read the instructions, but I'd say more installs then not have some kind of install error. Super common but maybe not so serious including leveling issues, then clearance issues for all sorts of items but particularly affecting items that need heat exchange or ventilation. Then onto electrical / wiring screw ups, then install damage of various sorts. People are buying very complex devices now, coupled with cost savings efforts by MFGs (everything built to basically minimal tolerance) and these are not you grandparents refrigerator anymore. By the time the items gets to your house it may have been VERY roughly treated - on and off a truck to the store, around the store, on and off a truck to your house, into your house etc etc. In many cases the installers are paid dirt money basically and these are big awkward heavy items.
tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
This sounds pretty concerning: "Samsung's own compliance tool, used by retailers to check that stock complies with Australian standards, lists the model as being one that should be prioritised for sale because it could be non-compliant." I think Australia has somewhat working consumer protection agencies, and if this is true (Samsung knowingly selling non-compliant products, and trying to sell them faster to make sure they're all sold before the non-compliance is discovered), I hope the sanctions are something truly discouraging (e.g. a fine corresponding to all revenue from sales of that model).
- ars 2y ago
  It's not likely as sinister as you make it out to be, I could not find out what "A2 regulation in June 2020" means, but I suspect they are phasing out older refrigerants, but allowing sale of existing stock. For example cars need to switch from r134A as of 2022, but before that it's fine, and home A/C's need to switch from R410a as of the end of this year, but they can sell existing stock for another year. So prioritizing for sale makes perfect sense, and doesn't indicate anything nefarious, just selling out of old stock, exactly as the law is suggesting. Edit: I'm virtually certain this is R-134a being phased out in Australia in June of 2020. And I figured out A1 and A2 which are flammability ratings of refrigerants. With R-134a being A1, and the new ones being slightly more flammable and are rated as A2.
  - uoaei 2y ago
    "Sinister" is a red herring. Negligence is as bad as malice because consequences do not change depending on intended outcomes.
avsteele 2y ago
Hmm... "I explained to the poisons hotline it wasn't just refrigerant, it was something more sinister," she said. How would she know? Probably something electronic burnt out. Then the wife had a panic attack from over worry. Article is interesting because of the non-disclosure clause stuff. Which, while not totally surprising I guess, is pretty scummy.
- gpm 2y ago
  Well, > "The [refrigerant] doesn't have a strong odour or flavour so the fact they could smell it, taste it, suggests there's something else that's been released," Professor Anderson said.
  - avsteele 2y ago
    That professor's statement was pretty silly. Burning electronics does have a strong, distinct odor. If they are unfamiliar with that, its totally plausible that's all that they smelled. Refrigerators are a few PCBs, a heat pump, a closed loop refrigerant, and a cooler. There really isn't anything especially exotic there.
    - omega3 2y ago
      Lead solder perhaps?
      - bongodongobob 2y ago
        What about it?
      - HeWhoLurksLate 2y ago
        Lead solder hardly smells at all, and if it does, it's more likely to be the flux that smells and gives you cancer.
      - gruez 2y ago
        Hasn't that been banned for decades because of rohs?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ipsum2 2y ago
Any bets that is a blown start capacitor, and the brown stuff is the electrolyte fluid? The smell is pretty bad.
- femto 2y ago
  I was about to hit reply on the same thing. It could also be a tantalum capacitor from a power supply. They really stink when they go, to the point where you are forced to leave the room.
01100011 2y ago
Speaking of refrigerators, are there any consumer level brands now that don't completely suck? It seems like longevity and reliability of refrigerators has fallen off a cliff lately. Major mfgs like Samsung and LG have serious issues with compressors dying early and it seems every fridge is loaded with features that mostly just shorten their lifetime.
- heywire 2y ago
  Whirlpool has worked out well for us. Had one for 10+ years in the last house and 3 years in this one, both without any issues.
- joezydeco 2y ago
  Miele has a good reputation, and Bosch/Thermador seems to be working on building a solid brand after outsourcing their refrigeration for a long time (they're also getting into HVAC heat pumps). I'm probably trading my piece of crap KitchenAid (Whirlpool) for a Bosch 800 pretty soon. Never get a french door fridge from Whirlpool.
- gruez 2y ago
  A comment section on HN is probably the worst place to get this sort of answer. People buy relatively few fridges so you'd need hundreds of replies to get enough statistical power. This is on top of the problems that reviews have, like non-response bias. edit: you can see this in action right now. There's one glowing review of whirlpool and one scathing review. I'm sure they're both honest, but what conclusion are you going to draw from that?
  - gpm 2y ago
    On the one hand you're right that this is a terrible place to get a good answer for this. On the other I don't know of a better one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    - gruez 2y ago
      https://www.consumerreports.org/refrigerators/most-and-least-reliable-refrigerator-brands/ https://www.consumerreports.org/refrigerators/most-and-least... n=80,300, but paywalled. However, one interesting tidbit that isn't paywalled is how bad fridge reliability is >Our results reveal that about a third of all refrigerators require repairs by the end of their fifth year of ownership, making them one of the least reliable appliances we analyze in our member surveys.
dhx 2y ago
Another news organisation notes the model is SR520BLSTC.[1] The SR520BLSTC user manual states R600a (isobutane) is used as the refrigerant.[1] Isobutane has a boiling point of -12oC. There are numerous case studies of people dieing from isobutane inhalation, but generally the exposure is deliberate such as sniffing isobutane from a camping stove canister, or spraying air freshener directly into the nose.[3] Cause of death appears to generally be due to hypoxia as isobutane is an asphyxiant, or ventricular fibrillation caused due to exertion in breathing.[3] The impacted person stated "I started to have rapid breathing and my muscles went completely weak".[1] These reported symptoms appear to align with symptoms referred to in case studies of isobutane inhalation exposure where rapid breathing occurs, and the strain from this rapid breathing is thought to in some cases be the cause for ventricular fibrillation.[3] [1] https://www.9news.com.au/national/victorian-family-say-samsung-fridge-is-making-them-sick/6d8268dd-9c07-4916-ab14-6bbf8485dca4 https://www.9news.com.au/national/victorian-family-say-samsu... [2] https://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/202109/20210914121138132/DA68-03570C-07_EN.pdf https://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/202109/2021091... [3] https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/source/hsdb/608#section=Human-Toxicity-Excerpts-%28Complete%29 https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/source/hsdb/608#section=Hum...
- gruez 2y ago
  How much isobutane is in a fridge? Unless they have a very cramped and poorly ventilated kitchen, you would need an absurd amount of refrigerant leaking to displace enough air to cause symptoms. Moreover wouldn't the high amounts of refrigerant leaking cause a hissing sound they could hear?
- jfengel 2y ago
  If the system were leaking refrigerant, wouldn't it rapidly stop working? It's supposed to be a closed loop. And it sounds as if it requires a fair bit of isobutane to cause problems, so if it's losing enough refrigerant to asphyxiate I'd think that it would soon stop refrigerating.

41 points by phs318u 2y ago

> "As a consumer advocate, it's rare to see deeds of release with gag clauses — which is what this is." I guess that offer is no longer valid since the fight hit the news. I wonder if we'll see more and more of these attempts to silence customers, as 1. companies get bigger and more powerful, and 2. regular people's ability to broadcast company wrongdoing over social media grows.

glzone1 2y ago

Some context. Refrigerator was 4 years old and out of stated warranty period Refrigerator not sold to them by samsung or installed by samsung but by another party ("JB Hi-Fi"). Despite being out of warranty, family offered a refund - they declined it. An expert has called Samsungs behavior "concerning and unfair". Notes: Plenty of folks ignore almost all maintenance steps (cleaning coils, filter changes etc). Pulling the covers and looking around and cleaning even 1x per year would help longevity and catch problems earlier in many cases. Having purchased appliances both personally and for a business - first call is usually to the store that sold us the item. These things are the one thing we get an extended warranty on. The installers are absolutely not licensed plumbers or electricians! I wouldn't be surprised if a fair bit of damage is caused just in getting these items to their locations and installed. They are heavy and awkward. Ask the repair tech who comes for first repair what most common issue is they are repairing - they often know right away (because they stock the parts etc etc). Some are avoidable / manageable.

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago
The issue here isn't the cost of the fridge, it's the health impact. Declining a mere refund (that almost certainly comes with a waiver on other claims in addition to the gag clause) is the only reasonable thing to do, and I doubt that being out of warranty absolves Samsung from liability if they sold a dangerous product.
- ars 2y ago
  How do you know there's a health impact, or that this is a dangerous product? The article has nothing supporting either of those claims in it. The oil they use in refrigerators stinks to high heaven, and that's about it. "POE that has been exposed to moisture can emit a strong odor which I would say is closer to dirty socks".
  - throwaway346434 2y ago
    https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant-poisoning https://www.mountsinai.org/health-library/poison/refrigerant...
    - ars 2y ago
      Those symptoms are mixing refrigerants, fumigants, and the frostbite from refrigerants expanding. It means nothing in the context of this article. The refrigerant at hand here is R-134a and has zero health risks, in fact it's used in inhalers.
  - gpm 2y ago
    > the company wasn't able to tell him what the chemical was or whether it could be harmful. Odd how you are confident that you know what the chemical is when the company that manufactured the product doesn't. And you don't need to know that there's a health impact to decline this settlement, you need to not know that there isn't. If there's even a small risk it's an extremely lowball offer. Especially given that according to another commenter here Australian law likely entitles them to that much without the NDA and release of liability.
    - zihotki 2y ago
      The company knows what is in there. The company doesn't know what exactly they smelled since that smell is a product of chemical reaction between refrigerant, oil, plastic and electronics. The refrigerant itself, as it's mentioned in the article, doesn't smell.
stemlord 2y ago
The whole article is about the lack of transparency on a situation involving a product Samsung designed which may or may not have serious health consequences, not about return policies
- glzone1 2y ago
  Is Samsung not using R-134a or R600a for refrigerant? This usually depends on market and regulations.
throwaway346434 2y ago
Australian consumer law means you generally don't need to bother with the "extended warranty" scam: https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advice/your-rights/articles/extended-warranties-investigation-survey https://www.choice.com.au/shopping/consumer-rights-and-advic... A fridge has to be of acceptable quality, safe, and one of the tests applied is durability - how long would an average consumer expect the product to last? Fridges are commonly expected to last 6-12 years (ATO, consumer group advice)
- astrec 2y ago
  Correct. Strictly speaking Australian consumers don't really need a warranty, which is a voluntary undertaking by a business to guarantee certain rights, unless that warranty exceeds those guarantees provided for in Australian consumer law. In this case the family is automatically entitled to repair, replacement, refund or cancellation for a reasonable time, where "reasonable" depends on the product or service as determined by the ACCC or the courts.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >where "reasonable" depends on the product or service as determined by the ACCC or the courts. Is there a table of warranty lengths by product published by the ACCC? If not it seems like a regulatory nightmare because neither consumers nor manufacturer knows what their rights/obligations are. At least with standard warranties you know what you're getting into.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - rpy 2y ago
      There isn’t a definitive list, only vague guidelines: https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/inline-files/acl-guidance-durability.pdf https://consumer.gov.au/sites/consumer/files/inline-files/ac... The price you paid relative to comparable products factors into it - more expensive goods are expected to last longer. If you and the manufacturer disagree, you can always take it to tribunal to get a decision (and manufacturers never want it to get there so are motivated to resolve your concern before it comes to that).
tomxor 2y ago
This is a safety issue, warranty is not relevant. Samsung also recalled a huge number of out of warranty phones due to significant safety risk of bad batteries. This should be investigated as a safety issue.
throwway120385 2y ago
Installers don't need to be licensed plumbers or electricians. A refrigerator is a huge self-contained "appliance" with a power cord that is designed to be inserted into a wall receptacle and water plumbing connections that are designed to be installed similarly to a clothes washing machine. You can literally buy one yourself, screw the water connection(if needed) on and plug it into the wall. The only things you should not let the installer do is put a tap on a water line for the fridge or add or modify the receptacle. But provided you've already had a plumber or electrician in to do those things there's no need to spend the extra money to pay a tradesperson to open the refrigerator box and plug it in. And to wit, every single refrigerator I've used has recommended maintenance that nobody ever does, and they have still lasted multiple decades. You don't even actually have to change the compressor oil like they tell you you should.
stahtops 2y ago
How is it relevant where they bought it or who installed it? If there was a problem with install, you would expect the failure to show up early, not five years later. You mention maintenance items… There’s no reason a fridge sold in 2019 couldn’t include maintenance monitoring and a 7-segment error display. The filter needs a change? The coil is hot? Ok tell the human. My Miele washer and dryer do it. Samsung appliances are garbage, I would never buy another one. I bought a $3000 fridge from them and I can only assume the ice maker was, at best, designed by someone with an MBA. Instead of having a cavity that is part of the mold (like a previous model), they just bolted it in to the fridge side. Obviously humid air leaks in and ices it over every week.
- glzone1 2y ago
  Hahah.. "How is it relevant where they bought it or who installed it?" Very relevant in many cases. Maybe you have experts installing things who read the instructions, but I'd say more installs then not have some kind of install error. Super common but maybe not so serious including leveling issues, then clearance issues for all sorts of items but particularly affecting items that need heat exchange or ventilation. Then onto electrical / wiring screw ups, then install damage of various sorts. People are buying very complex devices now, coupled with cost savings efforts by MFGs (everything built to basically minimal tolerance) and these are not you grandparents refrigerator anymore. By the time the items gets to your house it may have been VERY roughly treated - on and off a truck to the store, around the store, on and off a truck to your house, into your house etc etc. In many cases the installers are paid dirt money basically and these are big awkward heavy items.

tgsovlerkhgsel 2y ago

This sounds pretty concerning: "Samsung's own compliance tool, used by retailers to check that stock complies with Australian standards, lists the model as being one that should be prioritised for sale because it could be non-compliant." I think Australia has somewhat working consumer protection agencies, and if this is true (Samsung knowingly selling non-compliant products, and trying to sell them faster to make sure they're all sold before the non-compliance is discovered), I hope the sanctions are something truly discouraging (e.g. a fine corresponding to all revenue from sales of that model).

ars 2y ago
It's not likely as sinister as you make it out to be, I could not find out what "A2 regulation in June 2020" means, but I suspect they are phasing out older refrigerants, but allowing sale of existing stock. For example cars need to switch from r134A as of 2022, but before that it's fine, and home A/C's need to switch from R410a as of the end of this year, but they can sell existing stock for another year. So prioritizing for sale makes perfect sense, and doesn't indicate anything nefarious, just selling out of old stock, exactly as the law is suggesting. Edit: I'm virtually certain this is R-134a being phased out in Australia in June of 2020. And I figured out A1 and A2 which are flammability ratings of refrigerants. With R-134a being A1, and the new ones being slightly more flammable and are rated as A2.
- uoaei 2y ago
  "Sinister" is a red herring. Negligence is as bad as malice because consequences do not change depending on intended outcomes.

avsteele 2y ago

Hmm... "I explained to the poisons hotline it wasn't just refrigerant, it was something more sinister," she said. How would she know? Probably something electronic burnt out. Then the wife had a panic attack from over worry. Article is interesting because of the non-disclosure clause stuff. Which, while not totally surprising I guess, is pretty scummy.

gpm 2y ago
Well, > "The [refrigerant] doesn't have a strong odour or flavour so the fact they could smell it, taste it, suggests there's something else that's been released," Professor Anderson said.
- avsteele 2y ago
  That professor's statement was pretty silly. Burning electronics does have a strong, distinct odor. If they are unfamiliar with that, its totally plausible that's all that they smelled. Refrigerators are a few PCBs, a heat pump, a closed loop refrigerant, and a cooler. There really isn't anything especially exotic there.
  - omega3 2y ago
    Lead solder perhaps?
    - bongodongobob 2y ago
      What about it?
    - HeWhoLurksLate 2y ago
      Lead solder hardly smells at all, and if it does, it's more likely to be the flux that smells and gives you cancer.
    - gruez 2y ago
      Hasn't that been banned for decades because of rohs?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ipsum2 2y ago

Any bets that is a blown start capacitor, and the brown stuff is the electrolyte fluid? The smell is pretty bad.

femto 2y ago
I was about to hit reply on the same thing. It could also be a tantalum capacitor from a power supply. They really stink when they go, to the point where you are forced to leave the room.

01100011 2y ago

Speaking of refrigerators, are there any consumer level brands now that don't completely suck? It seems like longevity and reliability of refrigerators has fallen off a cliff lately. Major mfgs like Samsung and LG have serious issues with compressors dying early and it seems every fridge is loaded with features that mostly just shorten their lifetime.

heywire 2y ago
Whirlpool has worked out well for us. Had one for 10+ years in the last house and 3 years in this one, both without any issues.
joezydeco 2y ago
Miele has a good reputation, and Bosch/Thermador seems to be working on building a solid brand after outsourcing their refrigeration for a long time (they're also getting into HVAC heat pumps). I'm probably trading my piece of crap KitchenAid (Whirlpool) for a Bosch 800 pretty soon. Never get a french door fridge from Whirlpool.
gruez 2y ago
A comment section on HN is probably the worst place to get this sort of answer. People buy relatively few fridges so you'd need hundreds of replies to get enough statistical power. This is on top of the problems that reviews have, like non-response bias. edit: you can see this in action right now. There's one glowing review of whirlpool and one scathing review. I'm sure they're both honest, but what conclusion are you going to draw from that?
- gpm 2y ago
  On the one hand you're right that this is a terrible place to get a good answer for this. On the other I don't know of a better one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - gruez 2y ago
    https://www.consumerreports.org/refrigerators/most-and-least-reliable-refrigerator-brands/ https://www.consumerreports.org/refrigerators/most-and-least... n=80,300, but paywalled. However, one interesting tidbit that isn't paywalled is how bad fridge reliability is >Our results reveal that about a third of all refrigerators require repairs by the end of their fifth year of ownership, making them one of the least reliable appliances we analyze in our member surveys.

dhx 2y ago

Another news organisation notes the model is SR520BLSTC.[1] The SR520BLSTC user manual states R600a (isobutane) is used as the refrigerant.[1] Isobutane has a boiling point of -12oC. There are numerous case studies of people dieing from isobutane inhalation, but generally the exposure is deliberate such as sniffing isobutane from a camping stove canister, or spraying air freshener directly into the nose.[3] Cause of death appears to generally be due to hypoxia as isobutane is an asphyxiant, or ventricular fibrillation caused due to exertion in breathing.[3] The impacted person stated "I started to have rapid breathing and my muscles went completely weak".[1] These reported symptoms appear to align with symptoms referred to in case studies of isobutane inhalation exposure where rapid breathing occurs, and the strain from this rapid breathing is thought to in some cases be the cause for ventricular fibrillation.[3] [1] https://www.9news.com.au/national/victorian-family-say-samsung-fridge-is-making-them-sick/6d8268dd-9c07-4916-ab14-6bbf8485dca4 https://www.9news.com.au/national/victorian-family-say-samsu... [2] https://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/202109/20210914121138132/DA68-03570C-07_EN.pdf https://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/202109/2021091... [3] https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/source/hsdb/608#section=Human-Toxicity-Excerpts-%28Complete%29 https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/source/hsdb/608#section=Hum...

gruez 2y ago
How much isobutane is in a fridge? Unless they have a very cramped and poorly ventilated kitchen, you would need an absurd amount of refrigerant leaking to displace enough air to cause symptoms. Moreover wouldn't the high amounts of refrigerant leaking cause a hissing sound they could hear?
jfengel 2y ago
If the system were leaking refrigerant, wouldn't it rapidly stop working? It's supposed to be a closed loop. And it sounds as if it requires a fair bit of isobutane to cause problems, so if it's losing enough refrigerant to asphyxiate I'd think that it would soon stop refrigerating.