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Can the cities just buy water rights from farmers? That seems like the obvious solution - so obvious that, if it's not being done, there must be a reason why n

Can the cities just buy water rights from farmers? That seems like the obvious solution - so obvious that, if it's not being done, there must be a reason why not. Does anybody know?

bilbo0s 2y ago
Non transferable. Water rights for that farm. Not for a place 250 miles away. We sometimes forget how big California is. It’s not a regular state geographically speaking. Even if it were legal, how do you move the water 250 miles? Oftentimes uphill?
- codingdave 2y ago
  It is legal, for some types of water rights. Not all. And yes, water moves. Downhill. All by itself. Rights can be transferred to different owners along its path. It doesn't matter if the new owner is upstream or downstream, as long as you are talking about the same source. So while you are correct that a farmer wouldn't sell their rights to someone hundreds of miles away, they absolutely can sell to someone else in the same community.
acdha 2y ago
Where does the money come from? They can’t easily raise taxes to pay for it, and farmers are going to charge a lot even if they’re willing to sell because paying market rates for water places them at a significant disadvantage compared to other farmers who are not paying market rates. There are a lot of efficiency issues in agriculture – drive through the Central Valley in the summer and see how much runoff there is - but the solutions tend to increase labor costs. I’ve wondered whether the angle might be some kind of tax: don’t argue with the guy who has a 4 century-old claim, just charge a waste tax on usage over a certain amount per unit of food and apply it state wide so nobody can benefit by holding out.
- shrimp_emoji 2y ago
  Uhh how about that 15% income tax being used for multi-million-dollar public toilets? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/22/san-francisco-noe-valley-toilet/73387351007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/22/san-fr... I swear, it better have free Wi-Fi and EMP shielding.
  - acdha 2y ago
    Do you think that they’re just sitting on a pile of unspent money? If not, it doesn’t matter what the existing tax rate is since we’re talking about new money which has to come from somewhere. And while $1.7M is indeed silly, it’s a drop in the bucket for something which would cost billions. A custom building plan is much easier to avoid than a tense negotiation with many parties.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  If there was actual political will, it would happen. Heck, the government could use Eminent Domain to simply take those water rights from agriculture, and/or pay a token amount for them. It would be a lot more justifiable than many other recent examples of Eminent Domain use.
- cameldrv 2y ago
  The money comes from water bills. These bills are extremely high in California for non-ag customers and are more than enough to purchase water rights.
codingdave 2y ago
I did that when I lived out west. It was Utah, not CA, but I did sell my water rights to the city. There were a few catches to the process: I had to not want the water anymore, and the city had to have the funding available to make the purchase. While simple, those two things can certainly be large blockers to cities buying rights.

Can the cities just buy water rights from farmers? That seems like the obvious solution - so obvious that, if it's not being done, there must be a reason why not. Does anybody know?

bilbo0s 2y ago

Non transferable. Water rights for that farm. Not for a place 250 miles away. We sometimes forget how big California is. It’s not a regular state geographically speaking. Even if it were legal, how do you move the water 250 miles? Oftentimes uphill?

codingdave 2y ago
It is legal, for some types of water rights. Not all. And yes, water moves. Downhill. All by itself. Rights can be transferred to different owners along its path. It doesn't matter if the new owner is upstream or downstream, as long as you are talking about the same source. So while you are correct that a farmer wouldn't sell their rights to someone hundreds of miles away, they absolutely can sell to someone else in the same community.

acdha 2y ago

Where does the money come from? They can’t easily raise taxes to pay for it, and farmers are going to charge a lot even if they’re willing to sell because paying market rates for water places them at a significant disadvantage compared to other farmers who are not paying market rates. There are a lot of efficiency issues in agriculture – drive through the Central Valley in the summer and see how much runoff there is - but the solutions tend to increase labor costs. I’ve wondered whether the angle might be some kind of tax: don’t argue with the guy who has a 4 century-old claim, just charge a waste tax on usage over a certain amount per unit of food and apply it state wide so nobody can benefit by holding out.

shrimp_emoji 2y ago
Uhh how about that 15% income tax being used for multi-million-dollar public toilets? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/22/san-francisco-noe-valley-toilet/73387351007/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/04/22/san-fr... I swear, it better have free Wi-Fi and EMP shielding.
- acdha 2y ago
  Do you think that they’re just sitting on a pile of unspent money? If not, it doesn’t matter what the existing tax rate is since we’re talking about new money which has to come from somewhere. And while $1.7M is indeed silly, it’s a drop in the bucket for something which would cost billions. A custom building plan is much easier to avoid than a tense negotiation with many parties.
ryandrake 2y ago
If there was actual political will, it would happen. Heck, the government could use Eminent Domain to simply take those water rights from agriculture, and/or pay a token amount for them. It would be a lot more justifiable than many other recent examples of Eminent Domain use.
cameldrv 2y ago
The money comes from water bills. These bills are extremely high in California for non-ag customers and are more than enough to purchase water rights.

codingdave 2y ago

I did that when I lived out west. It was Utah, not CA, but I did sell my water rights to the city. There were a few catches to the process: I had to not want the water anymore, and the city had to have the funding available to make the purchase. While simple, those two things can certainly be large blockers to cities buying rights.