3 ms·

We’re still talking about the culture. It’s not that vegetarian food is hard to make, or that it’s less tasty. You just haven’t been exposed to the culture, whi

We’re still talking about the culture. It’s not that vegetarian food is hard to make, or that it’s less tasty. You just haven’t been exposed to the culture, which is why you believe it’s not feasible but literally billions of people in India have been thriving on a vegetarian diet with thousands of dishes for thousands of years. But yeah, in the end we all try to justify our actions. No argument will be convincing enough if one values their taste buds more than someone’s life or the planet.

djtango 2y ago
India isn't so great an example insofar as there are plenty of sources detailing common deficiencies in the Indian vegetarian diet - namely B12 and protein. But in any case I don't think turning consumption into something moral will ever scale. If you want to curb consumption you have to price in the externalities. This is true for everything - fast fashion and cheap flights too. I don't think it is cultural - my point is that as someone who appreciates food for more than just sustenance you'll never convince me that tempeh/tofu/jack fruit/bugs will one day make me forget that meat is delicious. I will gladly vote with my wallet or blood sweat & tears to continue eating meat especially if it becomes sustainable via price hikes. And I don't say this from a position of arrogance - I'm saying that I would cut many many many other things out of my life before I gave up meat due to affordability issues.
- collingreen 2y ago
  > If you want to curb consumption you have to price in the externalities. This is true for everything - fast fashion and cheap flights too. I agree with the idea that a capitalist society should work harder than we do to price in externalities in order to fulfill the social value of a free market. As a counter example to it being the only way though is how the modern world has drastically reduced and now culturally shuns (although we still have things to fix) human slavery without doing it via economic sanctions or price regulation. I don't actually have any hope here though - politically in the US I see more of a slide away from free markets and toward techno-feudalism and culturally in the US I see a backslide in empathy and personal values people are willing to make sacrifices for. You can't regulate people into having particular values (for good or for ill).
  - djtango 2y ago
    Its directly refuting anything you said but were you aware that the UK sweetened the deal for abolishing slavery? https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/working-paper/2022/the-collection-of-slavery-compensation-1835-43#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20compromise,behalf%20of%20the%20British%20government https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/working-paper/2022/the-colle....
    - djtango 2y ago
      Not*
    - collingreen 2y ago
      Oof. Thanks for the link! I'm not sure if this gives me hope or erodes it lol.

djtango 2y ago

India isn't so great an example insofar as there are plenty of sources detailing common deficiencies in the Indian vegetarian diet - namely B12 and protein. But in any case I don't think turning consumption into something moral will ever scale. If you want to curb consumption you have to price in the externalities. This is true for everything - fast fashion and cheap flights too. I don't think it is cultural - my point is that as someone who appreciates food for more than just sustenance you'll never convince me that tempeh/tofu/jack fruit/bugs will one day make me forget that meat is delicious. I will gladly vote with my wallet or blood sweat & tears to continue eating meat especially if it becomes sustainable via price hikes. And I don't say this from a position of arrogance - I'm saying that I would cut many many many other things out of my life before I gave up meat due to affordability issues.

collingreen 2y ago
> If you want to curb consumption you have to price in the externalities. This is true for everything - fast fashion and cheap flights too. I agree with the idea that a capitalist society should work harder than we do to price in externalities in order to fulfill the social value of a free market. As a counter example to it being the only way though is how the modern world has drastically reduced and now culturally shuns (although we still have things to fix) human slavery without doing it via economic sanctions or price regulation. I don't actually have any hope here though - politically in the US I see more of a slide away from free markets and toward techno-feudalism and culturally in the US I see a backslide in empathy and personal values people are willing to make sacrifices for. You can't regulate people into having particular values (for good or for ill).
- djtango 2y ago
  Its directly refuting anything you said but were you aware that the UK sweetened the deal for abolishing slavery? https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/working-paper/2022/the-collection-of-slavery-compensation-1835-43#:~:text=As%20part%20of%20the%20compromise,behalf%20of%20the%20British%20government https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/working-paper/2022/the-colle....
  - djtango 2y ago
    Not*
  - collingreen 2y ago
    Oof. Thanks for the link! I'm not sure if this gives me hope or erodes it lol.