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https://archive.is/96yi1 https://archive.is/96yi1 I feel what this article fails to mention is how the depreciation of EVs compares to depreciation of gas cars

https://archive.is/96yi1 https://archive.is/96yi1 I feel what this article fails to mention is how the depreciation of EVs compares to depreciation of gas cars. Apparently, based on google searches, cars depreciate 15% when driven off the lot, and then a further 15% per year after that. So it looks like EVs are depreciating quicker. This would definitely be a good deal, as they also have lower operating costs.

hindsightbias 2y ago
This is why used hybrid RAV4’s with 40K miles are selling over MSRP. I think these stats are biases towards junky brands with high turnovers.
asdff 2y ago
I'm really curious to see how the used market shakes out when it becomes time to play hot potato with the inevitable battery array replacement. Gas cars need work to but that work is less costly and they can take a whole lot of neglect.
- Clubber 2y ago
  The battery is the achilles' heel of EV's. An ICE engine can last 20+ years if you take care of it. An EV needs a battery replacement at the tune of $10K+ after 10 years at best. I think once they make longer lasting and/or cheaper batteries, this difference will level out. FWIW I drive a Toyota ICE and fully expect it to last to 200K+ miles and 20 years. If I decide to trade it, it would keep a heck of a lot of its value vs a Tesla. Those things depreciate like produce.
  - asdff 2y ago
    If theres no road salting a car can last literally forever. Especially older cars that were built on solid platforms. So many old big block trucks or diesel mercs in socal still working fine after 40-50 years. I see even older cars too, some of them beat to absolute crap with hardly any paint left on the metal but still in service.
    - Clubber 2y ago
      I did the math on the Toyota and based on how many miles I drive in a year (I work at home) and the expected life of the vehicle, it'll run reliably until I'm 169 years old. :)
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    Batteries do keep getting cheaper, and from what I've seen even at median they do better than 10 years, let alone at beat. Though just to toss some numbers out, if you had to buy a $10k battery every 150k miles that's definitely affordable.
    - asdff 2y ago
      The thing is with the used car market is that maintenance cost is not paid by all the owners. Its paid only by who happens to be holding the hot potato when the battery is screwed, and most people with means aren't holding a car to 150k miles, that's about how many miles an ICE car has in the maybe $5kish used range. The sort of person buying a $5k car can't afford a $10k battery. They might not have access to $10k on a line of credit either. The worst similar thing that could happen for an ICE car is a timing belt going before you replace it and screwing up the engine or the automatic transmission needing replace, both issues much less costly than a $10k battery but also costly enough that people sometimes walk away entirely from the car.
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        EV batteries don't tend to suddenly die, do they? You can negotiate a lower price for a weaker battery, and you don't have to replace it the moment it hits 80% capacity. And we're currently talking about cars that are worth significantly more than $5k. An extra 30% to fix it up is very different from an extra 200%.
        Clubber 2y ago
        A colleague of mine bought a Tesla. He was looking to trade it up for a newer model after a couple of years and it depreciated probably $30K (nearly half) if I recall correctly. He absolutely loves the car, but nobody wants to take on that type of depreciation hit.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        That's something worth nothing, but most of that is unrelated to the battery, and I don't see how it has anything to do with the rest of this comment thread.
- pornel 2y ago
  When it's time to replace, you'll get a larger battery for less money. You may be able to sell or reuse the old battery for stationary power storage. Nissan Leaf (one of the oldest BEVs) launched with 24kWh batteries. Now it has 40kWh for the same price (even less if counting inflation), and 64kWh upgrade options. Batteries tend to degrade 1%-2% per year, and there's no breaking point when you have to replace. In the Model S's (another old EV model with over a decade of data available) the cooling system tends to die sooner than the battery it cools. BEV battery recycling is still in infancy, because EV batteries are lasting longer than expected.
- pedalpete 2y ago
  Seeing as so many of these comments are related to battery replacement costs, I wonder if this will cause Tesla to take a larger hit than most automakers in the models where the battery is part of the frame. Are these even replacable?

hindsightbias 2y ago

This is why used hybrid RAV4’s with 40K miles are selling over MSRP. I think these stats are biases towards junky brands with high turnovers.

asdff 2y ago

I'm really curious to see how the used market shakes out when it becomes time to play hot potato with the inevitable battery array replacement. Gas cars need work to but that work is less costly and they can take a whole lot of neglect.

Clubber 2y ago
The battery is the achilles' heel of EV's. An ICE engine can last 20+ years if you take care of it. An EV needs a battery replacement at the tune of $10K+ after 10 years at best. I think once they make longer lasting and/or cheaper batteries, this difference will level out. FWIW I drive a Toyota ICE and fully expect it to last to 200K+ miles and 20 years. If I decide to trade it, it would keep a heck of a lot of its value vs a Tesla. Those things depreciate like produce.
- asdff 2y ago
  If theres no road salting a car can last literally forever. Especially older cars that were built on solid platforms. So many old big block trucks or diesel mercs in socal still working fine after 40-50 years. I see even older cars too, some of them beat to absolute crap with hardly any paint left on the metal but still in service.
  - Clubber 2y ago
    I did the math on the Toyota and based on how many miles I drive in a year (I work at home) and the expected life of the vehicle, it'll run reliably until I'm 169 years old. :)
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  Batteries do keep getting cheaper, and from what I've seen even at median they do better than 10 years, let alone at beat. Though just to toss some numbers out, if you had to buy a $10k battery every 150k miles that's definitely affordable.
  - asdff 2y ago
    The thing is with the used car market is that maintenance cost is not paid by all the owners. Its paid only by who happens to be holding the hot potato when the battery is screwed, and most people with means aren't holding a car to 150k miles, that's about how many miles an ICE car has in the maybe $5kish used range. The sort of person buying a $5k car can't afford a $10k battery. They might not have access to $10k on a line of credit either. The worst similar thing that could happen for an ICE car is a timing belt going before you replace it and screwing up the engine or the automatic transmission needing replace, both issues much less costly than a $10k battery but also costly enough that people sometimes walk away entirely from the car.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      EV batteries don't tend to suddenly die, do they? You can negotiate a lower price for a weaker battery, and you don't have to replace it the moment it hits 80% capacity. And we're currently talking about cars that are worth significantly more than $5k. An extra 30% to fix it up is very different from an extra 200%.
      - Clubber 2y ago
        A colleague of mine bought a Tesla. He was looking to trade it up for a newer model after a couple of years and it depreciated probably $30K (nearly half) if I recall correctly. He absolutely loves the car, but nobody wants to take on that type of depreciation hit.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        That's something worth nothing, but most of that is unrelated to the battery, and I don't see how it has anything to do with the rest of this comment thread.
pornel 2y ago
When it's time to replace, you'll get a larger battery for less money. You may be able to sell or reuse the old battery for stationary power storage. Nissan Leaf (one of the oldest BEVs) launched with 24kWh batteries. Now it has 40kWh for the same price (even less if counting inflation), and 64kWh upgrade options. Batteries tend to degrade 1%-2% per year, and there's no breaking point when you have to replace. In the Model S's (another old EV model with over a decade of data available) the cooling system tends to die sooner than the battery it cools. BEV battery recycling is still in infancy, because EV batteries are lasting longer than expected.
pedalpete 2y ago
Seeing as so many of these comments are related to battery replacement costs, I wonder if this will cause Tesla to take a larger hit than most automakers in the models where the battery is part of the frame. Are these even replacable?