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TL;DR: used EVs are "cheap" these days. As in, they're finally getting into a sub-$30K range. Meanwhile, I'm going to drive my 2010 Honda Fit (that I bought f

TL;DR: used EVs are "cheap" these days. As in, they're finally getting into a sub-$30K range. Meanwhile, I'm going to drive my 2010 Honda Fit (that I bought for $5K in 2017) practically forever. I'm making 6 figures as a software engineer, as does my wife. We have no kids. I have no idea who are these people buying new cars, or who are all these people for whom $30K is "cheap". I can pay that out of pocket, but unless held at gunpoint, I won't. There are many ways to make EVs marketable, but the key is make them goddamn cheap FFS. And the answer to that is infrastructure, not technology. We could make $5K glorified golf carts street-legal, and not requiring a license. For many people, that's enough for their grocery store runs / work / school commute. Oh, they won't fare well in a collision with F-150? Then maybe we can remove those from the streets outside specific delivery and maintenance hours, and impose a lower speed limit for heavier cars. That's before we get to the dangerous idea that we could charge the EV's as they go if we put wires into our streets... And perhaps add electronic signaling to make self-driving an easier problem to solve.. Maybe even a guiding rail (or two) to define lanes instead of paint that the weather can strip away... And if I may dream, this would enable us to replace tyres for traction with higer-efficiency rolling stock, and even link up cars going in the same direction on regular routes to reduce drag (and traffic). If only! I've lost all hope. Even thinking about it is tramatizing.

thechao 2y ago
> Oh, they won't fare well in a collision with F-150? Then maybe we can remove those from the streets outside specific delivery and maintenance hours, and impose a lower speed limit for heavier cars. A few things: 1. We should tax vehicles according to their road damage, i.e., O((weight/axles)^4*axles); 2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane; 3. Vehicles with gas mileage worse than 3g/100miles shouldn't be allowed to go over 45mph. My neighbors almost universally run small businesses; and, almost universally, slap their business sticker on their 100k$+ 250s & 350s and then take the whole cost as a "write off" for "tax purposes". If the IRS was doing their jobs, these fuckers wouldn't be on the road — they'd be paying off fines and/or in prison for fraud.
- romwell 2y ago
  Takes notes Those ideas read like poetry.
- 8jef 2y ago
  Good grief, you're my hero! But seriously, that kind of talk could get you elected.
  - warkdarrior 2y ago
    Elected maybe in California, but not most of the US and definitely not in Texas, Florida, etc.
    - kelseyfrog 2y ago
      In Texas and Florida big trucks are gender-affirming vehicles for cis-people. That's the nature of reality, big toys for big boys.
      - qwerpy 2y ago
        Cis person who drives a big truck in Washington state, don’t leave us out! To be fair it’s a cybertruck so I’m not sure how gender affirming it is. The manly gas guzzling truck drivers don’t seem to approve.
- gruez 2y ago
  >2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane; Why the left lane? Isn't the right lane closer to pedestrians? Also, what if you need to do a left turn? >3. Vehicles with gas mileage worse than 3g/100miles shouldn't be allowed to go over 45mph. seems like a nightmare to enforce, especially for models with hybrid variants that could do 3g/100mi.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    > seems like a nightmare to enforce, especially for models with hybrid variants that could do 3g/100mi. They can get a different color on the license plate. Easiest fine in the world.
8jef 2y ago
I do feel that.
bloomingeek 2y ago
When I purchased the base model Ram Classic pick-up in 2021, it cost $27K. It has the same engine and drive train as the $50K model, just not as pretty. A buddy of mine wanted to know why I did this and I told him both trucks do the same thing, but I have all that extra money in the bank. He just blinked at me and walked away, because he's an idiot. I also needed the truck, he didn't need his, he just wanted to have what his other buddies had.
- asdff 2y ago
  Out west where cars don't rust out from road salt, you see people still driving these 1970s trucks into job sites. A truck is a truck. Might as well get one from that era thats no taller than a sedan these days but still has a full bed and a big block thats probably going to keep on ticking another 50 years easy.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
ars 2y ago
> We could make $5K glorified golf carts street-legal They did that: https://www.cato.org/blog/im-government-im-here-give-you-golf-cart https://www.cato.org/blog/im-government-im-here-give-you-gol... (the article is kind of snarky but 100% accurate). And I know people who bought those free golf carts (that's how I heard about the program in the first place - if I had a place to park the thing I would have done it myself), drove them around a little and then they broke and that was the end of that. Nice waste of government money.
- asdff 2y ago
  I'm surprised people didn't like them. they are super popular in places that tolerate them e.g. more vacation/resort style towns as the designated grocery getter once you've parked the main car for the weekend. I'd love to have one. I've seen like two of them in the grocery store lot before here in socal.
  - ars 2y ago
    They failed too quickly to be useful. Additionally they ran on banks of cheap car batteries that were too expensive to replace because there were so many of them, and while the manufacturer could get cheap ones, as a consumer you couldn't. They were a toy basically, and an utter waste of government money.
chung8123 2y ago
It is fun to think of all the things we can do and dream up but you have to put it into real dollars and economic output for any real progress to be made. Next you need to convince others that your idea is better than what they have now. Part of convincing people you are right will be to understand why people purchase what they purchase.
m463 2y ago
come on, just get a used nissan leaf. about same price as your honda fit. cheap, an actual car, lowish range, but very usable. You can leave the AC running while you're in a store. You can charge at home on 110v. not that much to maintain. no smog, no oil changes, 125k coolant changes. you're a well-paid engineer, buy it as an experiment and have some fun with it.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
Except new EV TCO is cheaper than your shitbox widowmaker

thechao 2y ago

> Oh, they won't fare well in a collision with F-150? Then maybe we can remove those from the streets outside specific delivery and maintenance hours, and impose a lower speed limit for heavier cars. A few things: 1. We should tax vehicles according to their road damage, i.e., O((weight/axles)^4*axles); 2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane; 3. Vehicles with gas mileage worse than 3g/100miles shouldn't be allowed to go over 45mph. My neighbors almost universally run small businesses; and, almost universally, slap their business sticker on their 100k$+ 250s & 350s and then take the whole cost as a "write off" for "tax purposes". If the IRS was doing their jobs, these fuckers wouldn't be on the road — they'd be paying off fines and/or in prison for fraud.

romwell 2y ago
Takes notes Those ideas read like poetry.
8jef 2y ago
Good grief, you're my hero! But seriously, that kind of talk could get you elected.
- warkdarrior 2y ago
  Elected maybe in California, but not most of the US and definitely not in Texas, Florida, etc.
  - kelseyfrog 2y ago
    In Texas and Florida big trucks are gender-affirming vehicles for cis-people. That's the nature of reality, big toys for big boys.
    - qwerpy 2y ago
      Cis person who drives a big truck in Washington state, don’t leave us out! To be fair it’s a cybertruck so I’m not sure how gender affirming it is. The manly gas guzzling truck drivers don’t seem to approve.
gruez 2y ago
>2. Vehicles with bumpers/hoods higher than Xcm should never be allowed in the left lane; Why the left lane? Isn't the right lane closer to pedestrians? Also, what if you need to do a left turn? >3. Vehicles with gas mileage worse than 3g/100miles shouldn't be allowed to go over 45mph. seems like a nightmare to enforce, especially for models with hybrid variants that could do 3g/100mi.
- Dylan16807 2y ago
  > seems like a nightmare to enforce, especially for models with hybrid variants that could do 3g/100mi. They can get a different color on the license plate. Easiest fine in the world.

8jef 2y ago

I do feel that.

bloomingeek 2y ago

When I purchased the base model Ram Classic pick-up in 2021, it cost $27K. It has the same engine and drive train as the $50K model, just not as pretty. A buddy of mine wanted to know why I did this and I told him both trucks do the same thing, but I have all that extra money in the bank. He just blinked at me and walked away, because he's an idiot. I also needed the truck, he didn't need his, he just wanted to have what his other buddies had.

asdff 2y ago
Out west where cars don't rust out from road salt, you see people still driving these 1970s trucks into job sites. A truck is a truck. Might as well get one from that era thats no taller than a sedan these days but still has a full bed and a big block thats probably going to keep on ticking another 50 years easy.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

ars 2y ago

> We could make $5K glorified golf carts street-legal They did that: https://www.cato.org/blog/im-government-im-here-give-you-golf-cart https://www.cato.org/blog/im-government-im-here-give-you-gol... (the article is kind of snarky but 100% accurate). And I know people who bought those free golf carts (that's how I heard about the program in the first place - if I had a place to park the thing I would have done it myself), drove them around a little and then they broke and that was the end of that. Nice waste of government money.

asdff 2y ago
I'm surprised people didn't like them. they are super popular in places that tolerate them e.g. more vacation/resort style towns as the designated grocery getter once you've parked the main car for the weekend. I'd love to have one. I've seen like two of them in the grocery store lot before here in socal.
- ars 2y ago
  They failed too quickly to be useful. Additionally they ran on banks of cheap car batteries that were too expensive to replace because there were so many of them, and while the manufacturer could get cheap ones, as a consumer you couldn't. They were a toy basically, and an utter waste of government money.

chung8123 2y ago

It is fun to think of all the things we can do and dream up but you have to put it into real dollars and economic output for any real progress to be made. Next you need to convince others that your idea is better than what they have now. Part of convincing people you are right will be to understand why people purchase what they purchase.

m463 2y ago

come on, just get a used nissan leaf. about same price as your honda fit. cheap, an actual car, lowish range, but very usable. You can leave the AC running while you're in a store. You can charge at home on 110v. not that much to maintain. no smog, no oil changes, 125k coolant changes. you're a well-paid engineer, buy it as an experiment and have some fun with it.

dzhiurgis 2y ago

Except new EV TCO is cheaper than your shitbox widowmaker