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> loads of kids I'm not saying you're wrong, but... This narrative is very heavily purported by right-wing propaganda outlets. I wonder what you mean by "thin

by rexpop 2y ago

> loads of kids I'm not saying you're wrong, but... This narrative is very heavily purported by right-wing propaganda outlets. I wonder what you mean by "things... as a luxury." Do you mean MBAs, or history majors? And, what do you mean by "loads?" Do you have any data to back this up?

gary_0 2y ago
I think they mean the general study and refinement of culture and knowledge for its own sake--the kids who go to college/university for language arts, fine art, music, theatre, history, philosophy... these classes are widely attended, but have a reputation for not being useful for gainful employment. (Plenty of famous writers, poets, artists, actors, musicians, and journalists have such an education, but the rest of their classmates probably did not end up employed in the same sector.) Side note: it's not just the far-right that disparages higher academia as effete elitism. The far-left has done so as well, notably during China's Cultural Revolution, and within Soviet Russia, Pol Pot's Cambodia, etc. Being an academic at the wrong time in history means you have a good chance of ending up in a gulag or concentration camp.
- rexpop 2y ago
  Yes, I have studied a bit of China's Cultural Revolution, and discussed it with several (strongly biased, of course) Chinese expats. They violently opposed the subjects that many Americans are privileged to receive via our "liberal arts" educations. I can't argue with that. All I can say is that I view China as a deeply conservative, even fascist nation. From my (limited) perspective, it is deeply racist and misogynistic in ways to which only the most conservative, right-wing Americans compare. So it is hard for me to trace today's China's lineage "leftward".
  - gary_0 2y ago
    It's really more about totalitarianism, regardless of flavor. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory I also didn't mention the less "artsy" academic disciplines that might get you in trouble with the Party: mathematics, physics, astronomy, economics, biology, sociology, psychology... These can be seen as possible heresy and/or profligate navel-gazing that weakens the Glorious Nation. But it depends on the ideology and how useful the Party thinks your discipline is (for example, if expertise in your field is required to build nukes or launch rockets...)
lordnacho 2y ago
Well, what degrees are actually necessary for the work? As in, if you don't have the degree, you cannot be allowed to do the work? Medicine, law? Pretty much all other degrees are a thing that you do because it's interesting, and you want to signal your interest in some area. People are trained on the job for the most part. I'm fairly sure I could have jumped into my career from high school, were it not for the social convention that smart kids have to go to university, and thus only graduates can be hired. The sibling comment is right, btw, it's narrow to think of it as a right-wing talking point. Historically the left thought the same way.

by rexpop 2y ago

gary_0 2y ago

I think they mean the general study and refinement of culture and knowledge for its own sake--the kids who go to college/university for language arts, fine art, music, theatre, history, philosophy... these classes are widely attended, but have a reputation for not being useful for gainful employment. (Plenty of famous writers, poets, artists, actors, musicians, and journalists have such an education, but the rest of their classmates probably did not end up employed in the same sector.) Side note: it's not just the far-right that disparages higher academia as effete elitism. The far-left has done so as well, notably during China's Cultural Revolution, and within Soviet Russia, Pol Pot's Cambodia, etc. Being an academic at the wrong time in history means you have a good chance of ending up in a gulag or concentration camp.

rexpop 2y ago
Yes, I have studied a bit of China's Cultural Revolution, and discussed it with several (strongly biased, of course) Chinese expats. They violently opposed the subjects that many Americans are privileged to receive via our "liberal arts" educations. I can't argue with that. All I can say is that I view China as a deeply conservative, even fascist nation. From my (limited) perspective, it is deeply racist and misogynistic in ways to which only the most conservative, right-wing Americans compare. So it is hard for me to trace today's China's lineage "leftward".
- gary_0 2y ago
  It's really more about totalitarianism, regardless of flavor. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory I also didn't mention the less "artsy" academic disciplines that might get you in trouble with the Party: mathematics, physics, astronomy, economics, biology, sociology, psychology... These can be seen as possible heresy and/or profligate navel-gazing that weakens the Glorious Nation. But it depends on the ideology and how useful the Party thinks your discipline is (for example, if expertise in your field is required to build nukes or launch rockets...)

lordnacho 2y ago

Well, what degrees are actually necessary for the work? As in, if you don't have the degree, you cannot be allowed to do the work? Medicine, law? Pretty much all other degrees are a thing that you do because it's interesting, and you want to signal your interest in some area. People are trained on the job for the most part. I'm fairly sure I could have jumped into my career from high school, were it not for the social convention that smart kids have to go to university, and thus only graduates can be hired. The sibling comment is right, btw, it's narrow to think of it as a right-wing talking point. Historically the left thought the same way.