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Shareholders of large corporations, are, in my opinion, a "parasitic class". I believe buying shares in early stage companies improves the world, since it help

by EGreg 2y ago

Shareholders of large corporations, are, in my opinion, a "parasitic class". I believe buying shares in early stage companies improves the world, since it helps new technology and new efficiencies form. But at some point, after the IPO, it just becomes endless "extraction of rents", and it is what leads to "enshittification" (to invoke Cory Doctorow's term) of everything. At best, it is a zero-sum game, where hedge funds take everyone's money (see the movie Dumb Money about GameStop short squeeze). And of course, there is even regulatory capture, with 2020 bailouts by the Fed exceeding its mandate to bail out the stock markets. It would be great if future IPOs would be replaced with ICOs, where the shareholders would actually be bought out by utility token holders. If you need a metaphor or example, imagine "Disney Dollars" being used to buy out shareholders of Disney, Inc. The Disney Dollars are actually bought by customers of Disney World, Disneyland or Disney online platforms, who pay for actual things, and they get paid out to people working in Disney World, Disneyland, or on Disney IP. The people who visit Disney World or work there actually care about things like paid health insurance, or the quality of the local water, etc. It's more democratic. But the shareholders don't. They'd be glad to fire everyone and replace them with Westworld-like robots if it increased profits and dividends. If cities had their own currency, then they wouldn't go bankrupt like Detroit did. Once upon a time it was Motor City, but then all the factories got automated and the money for cars went to shareholders around the country. It gutted the economy of the city. That's what happens with shareholders of large concerns that have "made it" and went IPO.

tim333 2y ago
The bulk of the investors in large companies are institutions managing investments and pension funds for the public.
victorbjorklund 2y ago
The shareholders of big companies are you and me via pension funds. And of course cities could go bankrupt even if they had their own currencies. Having their own currency didnt protect countries like Zimbawe or Venezuela.
- EGreg 2y ago
  I see, so they found how to grow money by extracting rents from vibrant ecosystems that finally reached critical mass enshittifying them. And that’s why we can’t have nice things under corporate shareholder capitalism. Sounds like when ancaps complain about taxes, except it is inside private corporations who are accountable not just to customers and vendors in their marketplace but ultimately to shareholders and management teams that give huge bonuses to their CEOs. No thanks I think I prefer autonomous decentralized networks to replace that. Because the shareholders don’t even live there and dont care if the water is polluted (sometimes they even pay off politicians like in Flynt). OK so you claim these pension funds help pensioners around the country, at the expense of enshittifying things or buying up 25% of real estate or farmland in USA. Monsanto and John Deere IP for farmers enforced by government. Extreme centralization through corporations like BlackRock and State Street, fomenting wars in Ukraine to buy up cheap land there … but I hear socialism is bad. OK. As far as hyperinflation… they have to tax the money back to remove it from circulation. The current overton window in USA on taxation is so far from that, we’re on our way to massive money printing HERE. The Congress didnt have the guts to raise taxes (fiscal policy) after hugely expansionary monetary policy, so the Fed had to exceed their mandate and raise interest rates to fill the gap. Neither Dems or Republicans have the guts to reduce the deficits long enough to reduce the debt. Cutting taxes only increases the problem of hyperinflation. If cities had their own currencies they’d have their own fiscal policies too, as well as monetary. Compare how the PIIGS countries fared after they lost their currencies and joined the Euro. For every Zimbabwe and Venezuela hyperinflation there’s multiple countries running out of money and fuel (eg Sri Lanka, Haiti) undergoing austerity or under the thumb of IMF, World Bank being told what to plant etc. Their only hope is to maybe have China hold their leash for a while instead of USA. This isn’t sovereignty. Whether it’s Libya or Saudis or Ukraine or any number of countries. At least China invests in their infrastructure and tries to make peace deals. USA just does that whole economic hitman thing. Nah. I dont want my pension to be funded by oppressing others.

by EGreg 2y ago

tim333 2y ago

The bulk of the investors in large companies are institutions managing investments and pension funds for the public.

victorbjorklund 2y ago

The shareholders of big companies are you and me via pension funds. And of course cities could go bankrupt even if they had their own currencies. Having their own currency didnt protect countries like Zimbawe or Venezuela.

EGreg 2y ago
I see, so they found how to grow money by extracting rents from vibrant ecosystems that finally reached critical mass enshittifying them. And that’s why we can’t have nice things under corporate shareholder capitalism. Sounds like when ancaps complain about taxes, except it is inside private corporations who are accountable not just to customers and vendors in their marketplace but ultimately to shareholders and management teams that give huge bonuses to their CEOs. No thanks I think I prefer autonomous decentralized networks to replace that. Because the shareholders don’t even live there and dont care if the water is polluted (sometimes they even pay off politicians like in Flynt). OK so you claim these pension funds help pensioners around the country, at the expense of enshittifying things or buying up 25% of real estate or farmland in USA. Monsanto and John Deere IP for farmers enforced by government. Extreme centralization through corporations like BlackRock and State Street, fomenting wars in Ukraine to buy up cheap land there … but I hear socialism is bad. OK. As far as hyperinflation… they have to tax the money back to remove it from circulation. The current overton window in USA on taxation is so far from that, we’re on our way to massive money printing HERE. The Congress didnt have the guts to raise taxes (fiscal policy) after hugely expansionary monetary policy, so the Fed had to exceed their mandate and raise interest rates to fill the gap. Neither Dems or Republicans have the guts to reduce the deficits long enough to reduce the debt. Cutting taxes only increases the problem of hyperinflation. If cities had their own currencies they’d have their own fiscal policies too, as well as monetary. Compare how the PIIGS countries fared after they lost their currencies and joined the Euro. For every Zimbabwe and Venezuela hyperinflation there’s multiple countries running out of money and fuel (eg Sri Lanka, Haiti) undergoing austerity or under the thumb of IMF, World Bank being told what to plant etc. Their only hope is to maybe have China hold their leash for a while instead of USA. This isn’t sovereignty. Whether it’s Libya or Saudis or Ukraine or any number of countries. At least China invests in their infrastructure and tries to make peace deals. USA just does that whole economic hitman thing. Nah. I dont want my pension to be funded by oppressing others.