5 ms·

What is “predatory free to play” in the context of Fortnite?

by caseyy 2y ago

angulardragon03 2y ago
The kind of free to play with dark patterns that the FTC fines you for: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/03/ftc-finalizes-order-requiring-fortnite-maker-epic-games-pay-245-million-tricking-users-making https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/03/... Most interesting is this section: > Fortnite’s counterintuitive, inconsistent, and confusing button configuration led players to incur unwanted charges based on the press of a single button. Apple is also taking aim at Epic here for using buttons and labels identical to the ones that they use - I’m curious to actually see these buttons, and I wonder if they are being used intentionally.
- caseyy 2y ago
  Maybe that was once the case (possible), but I played Fornite for a while and I never had to pay for it, nor did I feel confused by whether I’m paying for something or not. The game is very successful and well-made. It is AAA-quality. An AAA price for that kind of content would be $60 minimum, more likely $80-100. Anything under that price and you’re playing the game at a steep discount, compared to what the games market offers. As for kids getting confused — yeah. That happens a lot, on the internet and outside the internet. Kids are confused about so many things. In fact, that is why they need to be parented. I feel like some parents should try and do that instead of waving fists at every tech/game company. This reminds me a bit about the outrage GTA used to cause. Just don’t buy it for your kid if you think it’s too violent for them, you know? It’s not hard. Don’t give your kid access to Fortnite if they will be confused. Or use a bank with spending limits. Or just give your kid gift cards. There are so many options in the world for parents other than child-proofing the world itself. Very, very many parents get this right. And it only takes 10 minutes to put some restrictions in place — bare minimum for parenting. Some others have the “government should do it for me” complex. Actions beget consequences. Neither Epic Games nor governments can fix bad parenting. So is paying less for a game than it’s worth really predatory? Alternatively, if kids get confused by something made for a broad audience, is that predatory? I don’t know, it’s grey area at best for me. You could make a claim that marketing in Fortnite is predatory but it’s the same marketing psychology that’s used elsewhere. Is marketing predatory then?
nottorp 2y ago
Fortnite isn't financed from IAPs? Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market? And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs or I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
- DEADMINCE 2y ago
  None of that matters. The owner of a game doesn't dictate whether the game is predatory or not, the behavior of the game does. The free to play model isn't inherently predatory, either, although certain companies certainly are. Call of Duty seems especially predatory.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    Let me translate “it’s only cosmetic” for you, because it’s probably what you think when you say there are non predatory IAPs. It means “keep the players playing until they get bored and buy some cosmetics”. They design the game to not only fleece you for money, but to waste your time until you do.
    - DEADMINCE 2y ago
      Translate what you like, it doesn't change my point: Free to play is not inherently predatory. There's a big difference between free to play and using as many dirty tricks as they can to fleece as much info as possible (and/or being pay to win), and a company that genuinely makes a free to play game and makes money off skins, because it made better business sense than charging $50 up front.
      - nottorp 2y ago
        > Free to play is not inherently predatory. See below. > genuinely makes a free to play game [...] because it made better business sense than charging $50 up front. So the free to play model fleeces you for more money. It's not predatory. At all. Honest.

What is “predatory free to play” in the context of Fortnite?

by caseyy 2y ago

What is “predatory free to play” in the context of Fortnite?

The kind of free to play with dark patterns that the FTC fines you for: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/03/ftc-finalizes-order-requiring-fortnite-maker-epic-games-pay-245-million-tricking-users-making https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/03/... Most interesting is this section: > Fortnite’s counterintuitive, inconsistent, and confusing button configuration led players to incur unwanted charges based on the press of a single button. Apple is also taking aim at Epic here for using buttons and labels identical to the ones that they use - I’m curious to actually see these buttons, and I wonder if they are being used intentionally.

caseyy 2y ago
Maybe that was once the case (possible), but I played Fornite for a while and I never had to pay for it, nor did I feel confused by whether I’m paying for something or not. The game is very successful and well-made. It is AAA-quality. An AAA price for that kind of content would be $60 minimum, more likely $80-100. Anything under that price and you’re playing the game at a steep discount, compared to what the games market offers. As for kids getting confused — yeah. That happens a lot, on the internet and outside the internet. Kids are confused about so many things. In fact, that is why they need to be parented. I feel like some parents should try and do that instead of waving fists at every tech/game company. This reminds me a bit about the outrage GTA used to cause. Just don’t buy it for your kid if you think it’s too violent for them, you know? It’s not hard. Don’t give your kid access to Fortnite if they will be confused. Or use a bank with spending limits. Or just give your kid gift cards. There are so many options in the world for parents other than child-proofing the world itself. Very, very many parents get this right. And it only takes 10 minutes to put some restrictions in place — bare minimum for parenting. Some others have the “government should do it for me” complex. Actions beget consequences. Neither Epic Games nor governments can fix bad parenting. So is paying less for a game than it’s worth really predatory? Alternatively, if kids get confused by something made for a broad audience, is that predatory? I don’t know, it’s grey area at best for me. You could make a claim that marketing in Fortnite is predatory but it’s the same marketing psychology that’s used elsewhere. Is marketing predatory then?

nottorp 2y ago

Fortnite isn't financed from IAPs? Tencent didn't get all their investment money from Gacha in the asian market? And please don't tell me Tencent is a minority investor or that there are non predatory IAPs or I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

DEADMINCE 2y ago
None of that matters. The owner of a game doesn't dictate whether the game is predatory or not, the behavior of the game does. The free to play model isn't inherently predatory, either, although certain companies certainly are. Call of Duty seems especially predatory.
- nottorp 2y ago
  Let me translate “it’s only cosmetic” for you, because it’s probably what you think when you say there are non predatory IAPs. It means “keep the players playing until they get bored and buy some cosmetics”. They design the game to not only fleece you for money, but to waste your time until you do.
  - DEADMINCE 2y ago
    Translate what you like, it doesn't change my point: Free to play is not inherently predatory. There's a big difference between free to play and using as many dirty tricks as they can to fleece as much info as possible (and/or being pay to win), and a company that genuinely makes a free to play game and makes money off skins, because it made better business sense than charging $50 up front.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      > Free to play is not inherently predatory. See below. > genuinely makes a free to play game [...] because it made better business sense than charging $50 up front. So the free to play model fleeces you for more money. It's not predatory. At all. Honest.