7 ms·

Record 4 Camera Angles at Once Using Only iPhones and iPads

150 points by peutetre 2y ago

LiquidPolymer 2y ago
As someone who uses Apple’s desktop Final Cut Pro app almost daily, I’ve been wondering if they would ever switch to a monthly fee as this pro version phone app does. I think I paid around $350 eight years ago and get regular updates for free. I also have Adobe’s Premiere on my machine but I gravitate toward FCPX and wonder why I still pay Adobe monthly for that app. I might add syncing multiple cameras in FCPX is pretty easy in post production. I’m wandering if this is a precursor for the future. Apple charging monthly for desktop apps.
- whstl 2y ago
  I also wonder the same. I use Logic almost daily, but would immediately change to something else if it ever becomes subscription-based. Maybe Bitwig and Linux.
  - Goofy_Coyote 2y ago
    I was a Premiere user, switched to Davinci Resolve a few years ago, and never looked back. I still wonder why such a great piece of software is free. There's a learning curve though - nothing serious, but I had to put in a couple of hours to learn how to do things I used to do in Adobe Premiere. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/davinciresolve https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/davinciresolve There's a paid version too, but I doubt anyone who's not making REAL money from editing ever needs it.
    - paulryanrogers 2y ago
      Retired a paid Vegas install for Resolve. It is quite feature packed. And the learning curve wasn't bad. I also like that it's backed by a hardware company so they aren't incentivized to gate a lot behind the paid version.
    - linsomniac 2y ago
      >I still wonder why such a great piece of software is free. My impression has been that it's "a rising tide buoys all ships" sort of perspective: having more people creating drives more Black Magic hardware purchases and the upgraded software (which is quite reasonably priced). I will go months between making videos, having a monthly subscription is painful when I'm not using it.
  - talldayo 2y ago
    Bitwig is so good, nowadays. I paid full-price for a Studio license, and their Linux support is so top-notch that I don't feel bad putting money in their pocket. I used to use Logic and Ableton, but I don't miss anything from them when I use Bitwig.
- Xeyz0r 2y ago
  Especially considering that over the past decade software monetization has been shifting towards subscription models
- voltaireodactyl 2y ago
  Just to put this out in the universe: I hope it stays 1-time.
- basisword 2y ago
  It keeps you buying high end Macs though, which have gotten ridiculously expensive now. That alone seems like a good reason for Apple to keep investing in Final Cut and Logic.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    I know multiple people still clinging on to their old 2012 MacPros running FCP7 as HD tape capture systems running OS X 10.6. And ONLY for that purpose. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, especially if it requires ripping out all of your existing capture devices, switching to USBC/TB4 type connectivity.
    - adamomada 2y ago
      Yah I made a mental note when I saw that setup being used in the Tiger King Netflix show (where they show quite a bit of behind the scenes of making it). I think it stuck in my head just because it was FCP7 but it’s like a high quality power tool - it doesn’t just stop working (unless you break it hehe)
  - BoredPositron 2y ago
    I honestly believe the bang for your buck is the best it has ever been for macs. The entry level hardware is also reasonable priced when looking at similar specced lin/win machines. The high end is pricey but so are HP/Lenovo workstations.
- dchuk 2y ago
  Realistically though, your $350 one time buy was the equivalent of 5.8 years of this version of Final Cut Pro at $4.99/month. So while you using it for 8 years busts through the total cost of ownership numbers, seems like $4.99 is very reasonable monthly. Plus as a low monthly, it’s more likely people will try the app out and start creating videos with it, vs having to stomach and justify a $350 up front spend. This all being said: I’ve never understood the issue with subscription software assuming the developers keep iterating on it. Seems like that is actually BETTER alignment of usage and commercial model than one time buy, because one time buys technically don’t incentivize the developers to keep iterating on software…
  - egypturnash 2y ago
    You are ignoring the misalignment of user and developer needs that happens when the devs spend all their time adding new features that mean absolutely nothing to your process; in the pre-subscription days I would skip new versions of Illustrator that only added stuff for people who do text layout or whatever. Now I'm sitting here paying for them to spend an entire dev cycle fucking around with text-to-image generation garbage I have no use for, like it or not.
  - afavour 2y ago
    > I’ve never understood the issue with subscription software assuming the developers keep iterating on it That also assumes the iteration provides value to me as a customer. I bought a license for Sketch years ago. It expired. Thankfully Sketch provide old versions for download so I’m still on version whatever-it-is… and it does everything I need. I know there’s new functionality but I’m not really interested in it.
    - sbarre 2y ago
      I think this shows that the best option should be to be able to choose. Use it all the time and want all the latest updates? Buy it as a subscription. Casual user who doesn't need all the latest updates or support? One-time purchase.
    - jwells89 2y ago
- foxandmouse 2y ago
  I think the competition in this segment will make that less less likely. davinci resolve is good enough to keep them competative, same cant be said for photoshop or illustrator alternatives.
- quitit 2y ago
  It's something I've wondered about as well. But I can see a lot of reasons why a loss leader is a good strategy here: - It's a trojan horse onto the platform, that'll always be worth more than a subscription. - New features utilise new hardware leading to upgrades, and FCP has been a useful way for Apple to show off the mac platform's speed. - Standardising to FCP can lead to the purchase of some of Apple's more lucrative hardware such as Afterburner cards and MacPros, or even just halo purchases as teams grow. (I consider the iPad subscription one of these halo purchases.) - So why not just make FCP free? They have iMovie for that - I think a free pro app would put Apple in competition hot water.
seltzered_ 2y ago
Dave Lee (aka dave2d) had a YouTube review touching on this feature of using an ipad pro (2024) with final cut pro to record 4 streams of video and replace a streamdeck + mac + OBS setup a month ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bG2N4a0ir3A&t=626 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bG2N4a0ir3A&t=626 (Just referencing, not really my area of interest)
geraldwhen 2y ago
Syncing audio and video timing for multicam is so difficult that it generally requires onsite highly paid camera operators to manage. I wonder what magic they used (and what underlying data format for the video) to make this sync magic happen.
- Ajedi32 2y ago
  When you think about it's actually pretty ridiculous that this difficult in the first place, in the internet era. In principle all you really need is a standard way to tag each keyframe with an NTP-synced timestamp, and any camera with an internet connection would be able to achieve this effortlessly.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - fwip 2y ago
    NTP time skew can be on the order of 100ms. If the audio/video is desynced by 30ms, it can definitely be noticeable. Some people are more sensitive than others, and it also depends on the particulars of the content. Edit: Another commenter points out that in some situations, it's even necessary to align the time that the frames start, which necessarily requires sub-frame precision.
    - Ajedi32 2y ago
      It's almost never going to be that bad unless you're going out over a terrible internet connection. Worst case you could have a way to configure one camera to run its own NTP server and have the others sync to it over LAN. That would get you sub-frame (<1ms) precision easily.
  - solardev 2y ago
    Is NTP precise enough for this? I thought timestamps are usually in milliseconds, but audio sampling rates can be fractions of a millisecond? If you're off by a little, won't it create weird echoes or interference in the sound ?
lsy 2y ago
Is there a streaming-native way of encoding multiple camera angles simultaneously in a video? The ability to toggle between different angles is a feature on DVDs and Blu-rays that IMO is underused but awesome for educational videos where different aspects or angles of a demonstration might be useful.
- Goofy_Coyote 2y ago
  On Mac, I'm using Continuity Camera with an older extra iPhone I have + Elgato Cam Link to hook in a DSLR. Then I use OBS Studio to mash them all together, you can then use some plugins to switch between cameras live while streaming (or recording). Hope it helps
- jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
  Youtube has multi-stream capability and I've seen one streamer use it years ago to let you pick which multiplayer user to spectate. I assume they used separate streams inside in the .m3u8 file used for HLS, much like how you'd do different resolutions. Haven't seen it done in years. .mkv files natively support adding an arbitrary number of video tracks, though player support is kind of rare. (it's _ by default to cycle video tracks in mpv)
  - rzzzt 2y ago
    MP4 containers also support multiple video tracks.
RIMR 2y ago
Any camera with an accurate clock can record video timestamped so that the exact time of each frame can be known. Why do we need proprietary stuff like this when we already have a tried and true method for syncing multicamera shots? The iPhone and iPad should be perfectly capable of this. Every video you take should be compatible, and pooling videos from multiple people should allow you to sync and sequence the videos properly.
- dylan604 2y ago
  > when we already have a tried and true method for syncing multicamera shots? please inform me of these tried and true methods that allow you to take a mobile device that is not a dedicated camera and make it part of a multicam shoot. this is one of those things that shows how against status quo you might be. this kind of thing opens up multicam shoot to sooooo many more people than even BlackMagic's ATEM equipment did. People wanting to do traditional mutlticam shoots and all of the procedural nightmare that comes with that are free to continue doing it. Using something like this allows for so much more flexibility it strains credulity that you're unable to see it.
  - sbarre 2y ago
    > please inform me of these tried and true methods that allow you to take a mobile device that is not a dedicated camera and make it part of a multicam shoot. From 2019: https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-11-roland-ios-app-creates-multi-camera-videos-in-a-single-take.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-11-roland-ios-app-creates-m... And the pro version, Roland AeroCaster: https://www.roland.com/global/products/aerocaster/ https://www.roland.com/global/products/aerocaster/ Also Filmic's DoubleTake has been out for years: https://www.filmicpro.com/products/doubletake/ https://www.filmicpro.com/products/doubletake/ Let's not pretend Apple is releasing some kind of breakthrough thing here that lets people do something they've never been able to do before.
    - linsomniac 2y ago
      Also Blackmagic Camera runs on iPhone and can sync multiple sources (they don't give a limit, I imagine if you had more than 4 iPhone/iPads it could sync them all). https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera
samspenc 2y ago
Somewhat related to this topic, Move.AI https://www.move.ai/ https://www.move.ai/ does something very similar but specifically for 3D 'markerless' motion-capture (MoCap) data. You can use iPhones, smartphone or recently any inexpensive network-connectable camera to get synchronized video from multiple sources, and then use that sync'd footage and their service to get accurate MoCap animation without needing expensive MoCap suits or hardware. Plask.ai and Rokoko Vision do something similar, but only support 1 camera afaik, so their camera-based MoCap is less accurate than Move.ai's multi-camera solution.
dchuk 2y ago
Anyone know if you can combine this multi cam feature with an external camera source connected to the iPad? So let’s say you have a canon camera hooked up by usbc to Final Cut and that’s your iPad’s camera, and then you have an iPhone as your second camera? If so, this can really be quite the portable high end recording solution for podcasters and YouTubers…
twobitshifter 2y ago
do you think final cut camera will support pro photography or will there be a pro camera app?
crb 2y ago
The live remote camera setup seems like the bones of the only killer app idea I've ever had: a two-iPhone camera system for couples who want a stranger to take a picture of them while they're on holiday. It would work like this: - hand volunteer a phone and ask them to point it at you - direct the shot by looking at the second phone ("no, stand further back, not our legs, don't point it directly at the sun") - put the second phone in your pocket - have the stranger take the photo you actually want, saving you rounds of back and forth when they say "Is this OK?" Has anyone ever seen an app like this?
- brrrrrm 2y ago
  Apple watch has this feature
  - geerlingguy 2y ago
    Yeah I often use my Apple Watch camera app to get a live view of what my iPhone sees when I have it on a tripod or do a family pic. It even allows for remote shutter and start stop.
    - ziofill 2y ago
      also useful to find your phone without making it ring loudly
- Ukudala 2y ago
  So dope, I have this problem all the time where I’m just like UGH can’t you take a friggen’ photo?? One without my LEGS!? Honestly I started carrying a tripod (Manfrotto carbon fiber) just so I don’t have to say thanks and later regret saying thanks because their photos this would be a killer app I would get the best shots by using them to get the best shots of me
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  Interesting... I carry my actual camera around me and I have a good understanding of the focal range and composition so I can ask the person taking my picture to step back, point up, etc. Now that's more for people I know. But not letting somebody pinch to zoom is really the most important part of not ruining a photo!
dharma1 2y ago
I wish Resolve could record multiple video/audio input sources at once - like a video DAW. 4K HDMI -> USB capture devices are so cheap these days. Yes you can record on the cameras, transfer and sync but it’s friction
- flutas 2y ago
  > 4K HDMI -> USB capture devices are so cheap these days. FWIW: Most of these cheaper devices will actually be ~720p max upscaled. https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/07/09/cheap-hdmi-capture-card-review/ https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/07/09/cheap-hdmi-capture-card-...
  - rasz 2y ago
    The new ~$5-10 USB 3.0 ones using MacroSilicon MS2130 do real pixel perfect fullhd@60Hz. Here in use as the cheapest and simplest (no need for custom drivers for EZUSB3 dongle) way of transferring data from FPGA board to PC at 180 MB/s https://github.com/steve-m/hsdaoh https://github.com/steve-m/hsdaoh https://hackaday.com/2024/06/01/use-that-one-port-for-high-speed-fpga-data-export/ https://hackaday.com/2024/06/01/use-that-one-port-for-high-s...
  - sho 2y ago
    Yeah, the cheapest good-ish solution is the ~$100 elgato camlink 4K, which will give you 4K 30fps in. It works well enough. Skip the really cheap crap, as you say.
- geerlingguy 2y ago
  Right now the best solution is using hardware like the Atomos Sumo, if you want multiple sources and full quality. I wish there were an easy breakout for 2-4 HDMI or SDI inputs straight through to a multi cam timeline on my Mac.
- sho 2y ago
  Yeah, I got back into video recently and it's pretty surprising that the "multiple video in" isn't a solved problem in 2024! Even recording "clean" video by itself is unexpectedly tricky. The only choice, on a mac at least, appears to be to record directly from the USB device using quicktime. Seems like a definitely opportunity for someone, although it also looks like Apple are thinking of moving into the space so maybe not.
ukuina 2y ago
I tried this last weekend and it was anything but smooth. Many discovery/connection issues, and only two of the four devices sent over anything except the highly compressed "preview" stream, and they wouldn't send the final copy no matter what I tried. Had to make do with the lower quality videos to get the edit out quickly. Bonus: FCP on iPad would keep throwing a blocking error stating it couldn't get the final streams every sixty seconds or so, for the entire duration of my editing and long after the other devices had left the vicinity. It seems the FCP project is somehow tainted by this. Next time, I'll just record separate videos from all of them and use Resolve to sync via audio analysis to create a new multicam video.
edandersen 2y ago
Why can't this work with Final Cut Pro on a Mac?
kragen 2y ago
possibly if you are interested in doing this sort of thing, you will be interested in doing it with free software. in that case: the debian debconf video team has been doing this for something like 15 years without the iphones and ipads, and without a limit of 4 camera angles, with 100% free software, and supporting live streaming (with simultaneous recoding to various bit rates) as well as just recording. they can fix unfortunate choices of camera stream after the fact for the final archived videos, too they document their setup at https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/docs/index.html https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/docs/index.html. the live video mixing software (to choose which camera angle to stream at any given time) is voctomix https://github.com/voc/voctomix https://github.com/voc/voctomix which belongs to the ccc video operation center https://c3voc.de/ https://c3voc.de/ i don't actually know what they use to push the rtmp video streams to the streaming server, but rtmp is very widely supported, since it's what twitch and youtube use for streaming video. obs studio can do this and is probably the most popular software for doing it; it's also 100% free software. https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-a-video-streaming-server-using-nginx-rtmp-on-ubuntu-22-04 https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-... says that you can also use ffmpeg directly ffmpeg -re -i "Introducing App Platform by DigitalOcean-iom_nhYQIYk.mp4" -c:v copy -c:a aac -ar 44100 -ac 1 -f flv rtmp://localhost/live/stream https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Capture/Webcam#Encodingexample1 https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Capture/Webcam#Encodingexample1 suggests getting ffmpeg input from your webcam with ffmpeg -f v4l2 -framerate 25 -video_size 640x480 -i /dev/video0 and i can successfully test my webcam with just ffmpeg -i /dev/video0 -pix_fmt yuv420p -f sdl 'hi' but i think that integrating an audio stream is a little more hassle if you want to try doing it manually with ffmpeg command lines (details in https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/StreamingGuide https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/StreamingGuide and https://www.baeldung.com/linux/ffmpeg-webcam-stream-video https://www.baeldung.com/linux/ffmpeg-webcam-stream-video). if you want a gui just use obs studio
- snailmailman 2y ago
  In a similar vein, I've used VDO.ninja several times to easily stream an iOS device camera into OBS. it just throws the camera stream onto a webpage, and then I load the page in OBS. not zero latency but its "good enough" for me to use my phone as a simple extra webcam. works on basically anything that has a web browser + camera.
__mharrison__ 2y ago
Davinci resolve will quickly align multi camera shots based on audio (or other metadata) and makes it really easy to edit this type of video.
- camillomiller 2y ago
  Having more options and competition is good tho, no? The real deal here is the preview on device more than the editing phase tho I would say
  - __mharrison__ 2y ago
    I guess that is a cool feature. I generally can't see my multicam live previews because I'm doing both the recording and being in the scene. A bonus of davinci resolve is that it runs on Mac, Windows, and Linux.
  - diffeomorphism 2y ago
    It would be, but this is the opposite because competition is not on equal grounds. Preinstalls are hugely important, defaults are important and even if your software is better than the manufacturer's, it will not be preinstalled and you will have less access to system functions and your software might break on OS upgrades. See any sherlocked app, e.g. sidecar, continuity cam,... and antitrust law suits.
- nerdjon 2y ago
  Worth mentioning that this feature has existed in Final Cut Pro for some time as multicsm editing. Easily syncing up multiple video and audio sources after the fact. The new feature here is being able to record as multicam and the preview on iPad.
nerdjon 2y ago
I have done multiple recordings with this and such a small change has made a massive difference in my workflow. Even if I am just recording a single angle, just being able to have a portable view of my camera has eliminated something being messed up with the recording like lighting, angle, etc. Previously I would need to make a recording, send it to my Mac, check it, and hope that I don't mess something up when I record again. That being said, it's not perfect. I am annoyed that for some reason I can't do 60fps if I am doing 4k, even though natively the Final Cut Camera app can do this. Also annoyed that from the iPad I can't do an audio only channel with a bluetooth source and instead just have to have my iPad camera turned on and connected to my microphone. Not the end of the world but annoying since Final Cut Pro multicam itself does support audio only tracks. It would be awesome if in a future update I could preview certain effects in real time, like green screen keying. But that would be a bonus and not a complaint. I am sure that for more established studios this is not really useful and they already had similar functionality with far more expensive setups, but for someone doing everything just by themselves this is an amazing feature that fixes my single biggest issue with recording videos.
0x70dd 2y ago
iPhones record videos with variable frame rate, which makes them unsuitable for syncing the video with a separate recorded audio track (e.g. when recording guitars). The video and audio would ever so slightly go our of sync. I wish there was a way to use fixed frame rate when recording.
- GeekyBear 2y ago
  As covered in the article, the free Final Cut Camera app gives you full control of the camera settings, including fixed frame rates.
suyash 2y ago
Anyone know similar setup and app for Android device?

150 points by peutetre 2y ago

As someone who uses Apple’s desktop Final Cut Pro app almost daily, I’ve been wondering if they would ever switch to a monthly fee as this pro version phone app does. I think I paid around $350 eight years ago and get regular updates for free. I also have Adobe’s Premiere on my machine but I gravitate toward FCPX and wonder why I still pay Adobe monthly for that app. I might add syncing multiple cameras in FCPX is pretty easy in post production. I’m wandering if this is a precursor for the future. Apple charging monthly for desktop apps.

whstl 2y ago
I also wonder the same. I use Logic almost daily, but would immediately change to something else if it ever becomes subscription-based. Maybe Bitwig and Linux.
- Goofy_Coyote 2y ago
  I was a Premiere user, switched to Davinci Resolve a few years ago, and never looked back. I still wonder why such a great piece of software is free. There's a learning curve though - nothing serious, but I had to put in a couple of hours to learn how to do things I used to do in Adobe Premiere. https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/davinciresolve https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/ca/products/davinciresolve There's a paid version too, but I doubt anyone who's not making REAL money from editing ever needs it.
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    Retired a paid Vegas install for Resolve. It is quite feature packed. And the learning curve wasn't bad. I also like that it's backed by a hardware company so they aren't incentivized to gate a lot behind the paid version.
  - linsomniac 2y ago
    >I still wonder why such a great piece of software is free. My impression has been that it's "a rising tide buoys all ships" sort of perspective: having more people creating drives more Black Magic hardware purchases and the upgraded software (which is quite reasonably priced). I will go months between making videos, having a monthly subscription is painful when I'm not using it.
- talldayo 2y ago
  Bitwig is so good, nowadays. I paid full-price for a Studio license, and their Linux support is so top-notch that I don't feel bad putting money in their pocket. I used to use Logic and Ableton, but I don't miss anything from them when I use Bitwig.
Xeyz0r 2y ago
Especially considering that over the past decade software monetization has been shifting towards subscription models
voltaireodactyl 2y ago
Just to put this out in the universe: I hope it stays 1-time.
basisword 2y ago
It keeps you buying high end Macs though, which have gotten ridiculously expensive now. That alone seems like a good reason for Apple to keep investing in Final Cut and Logic.
- dylan604 2y ago
  I know multiple people still clinging on to their old 2012 MacPros running FCP7 as HD tape capture systems running OS X 10.6. And ONLY for that purpose. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, especially if it requires ripping out all of your existing capture devices, switching to USBC/TB4 type connectivity.
  - adamomada 2y ago
    Yah I made a mental note when I saw that setup being used in the Tiger King Netflix show (where they show quite a bit of behind the scenes of making it). I think it stuck in my head just because it was FCP7 but it’s like a high quality power tool - it doesn’t just stop working (unless you break it hehe)
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  I honestly believe the bang for your buck is the best it has ever been for macs. The entry level hardware is also reasonable priced when looking at similar specced lin/win machines. The high end is pricey but so are HP/Lenovo workstations.
dchuk 2y ago
Realistically though, your $350 one time buy was the equivalent of 5.8 years of this version of Final Cut Pro at $4.99/month. So while you using it for 8 years busts through the total cost of ownership numbers, seems like $4.99 is very reasonable monthly. Plus as a low monthly, it’s more likely people will try the app out and start creating videos with it, vs having to stomach and justify a $350 up front spend. This all being said: I’ve never understood the issue with subscription software assuming the developers keep iterating on it. Seems like that is actually BETTER alignment of usage and commercial model than one time buy, because one time buys technically don’t incentivize the developers to keep iterating on software…
- egypturnash 2y ago
  You are ignoring the misalignment of user and developer needs that happens when the devs spend all their time adding new features that mean absolutely nothing to your process; in the pre-subscription days I would skip new versions of Illustrator that only added stuff for people who do text layout or whatever. Now I'm sitting here paying for them to spend an entire dev cycle fucking around with text-to-image generation garbage I have no use for, like it or not.
- afavour 2y ago
  > I’ve never understood the issue with subscription software assuming the developers keep iterating on it That also assumes the iteration provides value to me as a customer. I bought a license for Sketch years ago. It expired. Thankfully Sketch provide old versions for download so I’m still on version whatever-it-is… and it does everything I need. I know there’s new functionality but I’m not really interested in it.
  - sbarre 2y ago
    I think this shows that the best option should be to be able to choose. Use it all the time and want all the latest updates? Buy it as a subscription. Casual user who doesn't need all the latest updates or support? One-time purchase.
  - jwells89 2y ago
foxandmouse 2y ago
I think the competition in this segment will make that less less likely. davinci resolve is good enough to keep them competative, same cant be said for photoshop or illustrator alternatives.
quitit 2y ago
It's something I've wondered about as well. But I can see a lot of reasons why a loss leader is a good strategy here: - It's a trojan horse onto the platform, that'll always be worth more than a subscription. - New features utilise new hardware leading to upgrades, and FCP has been a useful way for Apple to show off the mac platform's speed. - Standardising to FCP can lead to the purchase of some of Apple's more lucrative hardware such as Afterburner cards and MacPros, or even just halo purchases as teams grow. (I consider the iPad subscription one of these halo purchases.) - So why not just make FCP free? They have iMovie for that - I think a free pro app would put Apple in competition hot water.

seltzered_ 2y ago

Dave Lee (aka dave2d) had a YouTube review touching on this feature of using an ipad pro (2024) with final cut pro to record 4 streams of video and replace a streamdeck + mac + OBS setup a month ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bG2N4a0ir3A&t=626 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bG2N4a0ir3A&t=626 (Just referencing, not really my area of interest)

geraldwhen 2y ago

Syncing audio and video timing for multicam is so difficult that it generally requires onsite highly paid camera operators to manage. I wonder what magic they used (and what underlying data format for the video) to make this sync magic happen.

Ajedi32 2y ago
When you think about it's actually pretty ridiculous that this difficult in the first place, in the internet era. In principle all you really need is a standard way to tag each keyframe with an NTP-synced timestamp, and any camera with an internet connection would be able to achieve this effortlessly.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fwip 2y ago
  NTP time skew can be on the order of 100ms. If the audio/video is desynced by 30ms, it can definitely be noticeable. Some people are more sensitive than others, and it also depends on the particulars of the content. Edit: Another commenter points out that in some situations, it's even necessary to align the time that the frames start, which necessarily requires sub-frame precision.
  - Ajedi32 2y ago
    It's almost never going to be that bad unless you're going out over a terrible internet connection. Worst case you could have a way to configure one camera to run its own NTP server and have the others sync to it over LAN. That would get you sub-frame (<1ms) precision easily.
- solardev 2y ago
  Is NTP precise enough for this? I thought timestamps are usually in milliseconds, but audio sampling rates can be fractions of a millisecond? If you're off by a little, won't it create weird echoes or interference in the sound ?

lsy 2y ago

Is there a streaming-native way of encoding multiple camera angles simultaneously in a video? The ability to toggle between different angles is a feature on DVDs and Blu-rays that IMO is underused but awesome for educational videos where different aspects or angles of a demonstration might be useful.

Goofy_Coyote 2y ago
On Mac, I'm using Continuity Camera with an older extra iPhone I have + Elgato Cam Link to hook in a DSLR. Then I use OBS Studio to mash them all together, you can then use some plugins to switch between cameras live while streaming (or recording). Hope it helps
jimbobthrowawy 2y ago
Youtube has multi-stream capability and I've seen one streamer use it years ago to let you pick which multiplayer user to spectate. I assume they used separate streams inside in the .m3u8 file used for HLS, much like how you'd do different resolutions. Haven't seen it done in years. .mkv files natively support adding an arbitrary number of video tracks, though player support is kind of rare. (it's _ by default to cycle video tracks in mpv)
- rzzzt 2y ago
  MP4 containers also support multiple video tracks.

RIMR 2y ago

Any camera with an accurate clock can record video timestamped so that the exact time of each frame can be known. Why do we need proprietary stuff like this when we already have a tried and true method for syncing multicamera shots? The iPhone and iPad should be perfectly capable of this. Every video you take should be compatible, and pooling videos from multiple people should allow you to sync and sequence the videos properly.

dylan604 2y ago
> when we already have a tried and true method for syncing multicamera shots? please inform me of these tried and true methods that allow you to take a mobile device that is not a dedicated camera and make it part of a multicam shoot. this is one of those things that shows how against status quo you might be. this kind of thing opens up multicam shoot to sooooo many more people than even BlackMagic's ATEM equipment did. People wanting to do traditional mutlticam shoots and all of the procedural nightmare that comes with that are free to continue doing it. Using something like this allows for so much more flexibility it strains credulity that you're unable to see it.
- sbarre 2y ago
  > please inform me of these tried and true methods that allow you to take a mobile device that is not a dedicated camera and make it part of a multicam shoot. From 2019: https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-11-roland-ios-app-creates-multi-camera-videos-in-a-single-take.html https://www.engadget.com/2019-09-11-roland-ios-app-creates-m... And the pro version, Roland AeroCaster: https://www.roland.com/global/products/aerocaster/ https://www.roland.com/global/products/aerocaster/ Also Filmic's DoubleTake has been out for years: https://www.filmicpro.com/products/doubletake/ https://www.filmicpro.com/products/doubletake/ Let's not pretend Apple is releasing some kind of breakthrough thing here that lets people do something they've never been able to do before.
  - linsomniac 2y ago
    Also Blackmagic Camera runs on iPhone and can sync multiple sources (they don't give a limit, I imagine if you had more than 4 iPhone/iPads it could sync them all). https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccamera

samspenc 2y ago

Somewhat related to this topic, Move.AI https://www.move.ai/ https://www.move.ai/ does something very similar but specifically for 3D 'markerless' motion-capture (MoCap) data. You can use iPhones, smartphone or recently any inexpensive network-connectable camera to get synchronized video from multiple sources, and then use that sync'd footage and their service to get accurate MoCap animation without needing expensive MoCap suits or hardware. Plask.ai and Rokoko Vision do something similar, but only support 1 camera afaik, so their camera-based MoCap is less accurate than Move.ai's multi-camera solution.

dchuk 2y ago

Anyone know if you can combine this multi cam feature with an external camera source connected to the iPad? So let’s say you have a canon camera hooked up by usbc to Final Cut and that’s your iPad’s camera, and then you have an iPhone as your second camera? If so, this can really be quite the portable high end recording solution for podcasters and YouTubers…

twobitshifter 2y ago

do you think final cut camera will support pro photography or will there be a pro camera app?

crb 2y ago

The live remote camera setup seems like the bones of the only killer app idea I've ever had: a two-iPhone camera system for couples who want a stranger to take a picture of them while they're on holiday. It would work like this: - hand volunteer a phone and ask them to point it at you - direct the shot by looking at the second phone ("no, stand further back, not our legs, don't point it directly at the sun") - put the second phone in your pocket - have the stranger take the photo you actually want, saving you rounds of back and forth when they say "Is this OK?" Has anyone ever seen an app like this?

brrrrrm 2y ago
Apple watch has this feature
- geerlingguy 2y ago
  Yeah I often use my Apple Watch camera app to get a live view of what my iPhone sees when I have it on a tripod or do a family pic. It even allows for remote shutter and start stop.
  - ziofill 2y ago
    also useful to find your phone without making it ring loudly
Ukudala 2y ago
So dope, I have this problem all the time where I’m just like UGH can’t you take a friggen’ photo?? One without my LEGS!? Honestly I started carrying a tripod (Manfrotto carbon fiber) just so I don’t have to say thanks and later regret saying thanks because their photos this would be a killer app I would get the best shots by using them to get the best shots of me
kylehotchkiss 2y ago
Interesting... I carry my actual camera around me and I have a good understanding of the focal range and composition so I can ask the person taking my picture to step back, point up, etc. Now that's more for people I know. But not letting somebody pinch to zoom is really the most important part of not ruining a photo!

dharma1 2y ago

I wish Resolve could record multiple video/audio input sources at once - like a video DAW. 4K HDMI -> USB capture devices are so cheap these days. Yes you can record on the cameras, transfer and sync but it’s friction

flutas 2y ago
> 4K HDMI -> USB capture devices are so cheap these days. FWIW: Most of these cheaper devices will actually be ~720p max upscaled. https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/07/09/cheap-hdmi-capture-card-review/ https://www.naut.ca/blog/2020/07/09/cheap-hdmi-capture-card-...
- rasz 2y ago
  The new ~$5-10 USB 3.0 ones using MacroSilicon MS2130 do real pixel perfect fullhd@60Hz. Here in use as the cheapest and simplest (no need for custom drivers for EZUSB3 dongle) way of transferring data from FPGA board to PC at 180 MB/s https://github.com/steve-m/hsdaoh https://github.com/steve-m/hsdaoh https://hackaday.com/2024/06/01/use-that-one-port-for-high-speed-fpga-data-export/ https://hackaday.com/2024/06/01/use-that-one-port-for-high-s...
- sho 2y ago
  Yeah, the cheapest good-ish solution is the ~$100 elgato camlink 4K, which will give you 4K 30fps in. It works well enough. Skip the really cheap crap, as you say.
geerlingguy 2y ago
Right now the best solution is using hardware like the Atomos Sumo, if you want multiple sources and full quality. I wish there were an easy breakout for 2-4 HDMI or SDI inputs straight through to a multi cam timeline on my Mac.
sho 2y ago
Yeah, I got back into video recently and it's pretty surprising that the "multiple video in" isn't a solved problem in 2024! Even recording "clean" video by itself is unexpectedly tricky. The only choice, on a mac at least, appears to be to record directly from the USB device using quicktime. Seems like a definitely opportunity for someone, although it also looks like Apple are thinking of moving into the space so maybe not.

ukuina 2y ago

I tried this last weekend and it was anything but smooth. Many discovery/connection issues, and only two of the four devices sent over anything except the highly compressed "preview" stream, and they wouldn't send the final copy no matter what I tried. Had to make do with the lower quality videos to get the edit out quickly. Bonus: FCP on iPad would keep throwing a blocking error stating it couldn't get the final streams every sixty seconds or so, for the entire duration of my editing and long after the other devices had left the vicinity. It seems the FCP project is somehow tainted by this. Next time, I'll just record separate videos from all of them and use Resolve to sync via audio analysis to create a new multicam video.

edandersen 2y ago

Why can't this work with Final Cut Pro on a Mac?

kragen 2y ago

possibly if you are interested in doing this sort of thing, you will be interested in doing it with free software. in that case: the debian debconf video team has been doing this for something like 15 years without the iphones and ipads, and without a limit of 4 camera angles, with 100% free software, and supporting live streaming (with simultaneous recoding to various bit rates) as well as just recording. they can fix unfortunate choices of camera stream after the fact for the final archived videos, too they document their setup at https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/docs/index.html https://debconf-video-team.pages.debian.net/docs/index.html. the live video mixing software (to choose which camera angle to stream at any given time) is voctomix https://github.com/voc/voctomix https://github.com/voc/voctomix which belongs to the ccc video operation center https://c3voc.de/ https://c3voc.de/ i don't actually know what they use to push the rtmp video streams to the streaming server, but rtmp is very widely supported, since it's what twitch and youtube use for streaming video. obs studio can do this and is probably the most popular software for doing it; it's also 100% free software. https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-up-a-video-streaming-server-using-nginx-rtmp-on-ubuntu-22-04 https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/how-to-set-... says that you can also use ffmpeg directly ffmpeg -re -i "Introducing App Platform by DigitalOcean-iom_nhYQIYk.mp4" -c:v copy -c:a aac -ar 44100 -ac 1 -f flv rtmp://localhost/live/stream https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Capture/Webcam#Encodingexample1 https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Capture/Webcam#Encodingexample1 suggests getting ffmpeg input from your webcam with ffmpeg -f v4l2 -framerate 25 -video_size 640x480 -i /dev/video0 and i can successfully test my webcam with just ffmpeg -i /dev/video0 -pix_fmt yuv420p -f sdl 'hi' but i think that integrating an audio stream is a little more hassle if you want to try doing it manually with ffmpeg command lines (details in https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/StreamingGuide https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/StreamingGuide and https://www.baeldung.com/linux/ffmpeg-webcam-stream-video https://www.baeldung.com/linux/ffmpeg-webcam-stream-video). if you want a gui just use obs studio

snailmailman 2y ago
In a similar vein, I've used VDO.ninja several times to easily stream an iOS device camera into OBS. it just throws the camera stream onto a webpage, and then I load the page in OBS. not zero latency but its "good enough" for me to use my phone as a simple extra webcam. works on basically anything that has a web browser + camera.

__mharrison__ 2y ago

Davinci resolve will quickly align multi camera shots based on audio (or other metadata) and makes it really easy to edit this type of video.

camillomiller 2y ago
Having more options and competition is good tho, no? The real deal here is the preview on device more than the editing phase tho I would say
- __mharrison__ 2y ago
  I guess that is a cool feature. I generally can't see my multicam live previews because I'm doing both the recording and being in the scene. A bonus of davinci resolve is that it runs on Mac, Windows, and Linux.
- diffeomorphism 2y ago
  It would be, but this is the opposite because competition is not on equal grounds. Preinstalls are hugely important, defaults are important and even if your software is better than the manufacturer's, it will not be preinstalled and you will have less access to system functions and your software might break on OS upgrades. See any sherlocked app, e.g. sidecar, continuity cam,... and antitrust law suits.
nerdjon 2y ago
Worth mentioning that this feature has existed in Final Cut Pro for some time as multicsm editing. Easily syncing up multiple video and audio sources after the fact. The new feature here is being able to record as multicam and the preview on iPad.

nerdjon 2y ago

I have done multiple recordings with this and such a small change has made a massive difference in my workflow. Even if I am just recording a single angle, just being able to have a portable view of my camera has eliminated something being messed up with the recording like lighting, angle, etc. Previously I would need to make a recording, send it to my Mac, check it, and hope that I don't mess something up when I record again. That being said, it's not perfect. I am annoyed that for some reason I can't do 60fps if I am doing 4k, even though natively the Final Cut Camera app can do this. Also annoyed that from the iPad I can't do an audio only channel with a bluetooth source and instead just have to have my iPad camera turned on and connected to my microphone. Not the end of the world but annoying since Final Cut Pro multicam itself does support audio only tracks. It would be awesome if in a future update I could preview certain effects in real time, like green screen keying. But that would be a bonus and not a complaint. I am sure that for more established studios this is not really useful and they already had similar functionality with far more expensive setups, but for someone doing everything just by themselves this is an amazing feature that fixes my single biggest issue with recording videos.

0x70dd 2y ago

iPhones record videos with variable frame rate, which makes them unsuitable for syncing the video with a separate recorded audio track (e.g. when recording guitars). The video and audio would ever so slightly go our of sync. I wish there was a way to use fixed frame rate when recording.

GeekyBear 2y ago
As covered in the article, the free Final Cut Camera app gives you full control of the camera settings, including fixed frame rates.

suyash 2y ago

Anyone know similar setup and app for Android device?