4 ms·
For that matter, a lot of historical dates we consider important are only important to us because A) we're westerners and B) we got them drilled into us by text
by Dalewyn 2y ago
For that matter, a lot of historical dates we consider important are only important to us because A) we're westerners and B) we got them drilled into us by textbooks and classes.
The remaining majority of the world (the west is a minority) sincerely couldn't care less about the American or French or Industrial Revolutions or Columbus (re)discovering America or the Hundred Years War or the Black Death or the Fall of Rome or whatever else.
Kind of like how we as westerners generally couldn't care less about Asian, African, Middle Eastern, Indian, or Polynesian histories.
The culture we grow up in and become indoctrinated by determines what is important and what is not.
And just so we're clear, this bit of ignorance is perfectly fine: Life is short, ain't nobody got time for shit that happened to people you don't even know who lived somewhere you will never see.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoAppeal to ignorance and anti-intellectualism, congrats.
- Dalewyn 2y agoLet me put it this way: Can you really blame someone for not knowing a historical fact that is completely irrelevant to their life, especially when they probably have more pressing concerns to learn and care about? We only have so many hours in a day and so many days in a lifetime, while knowledge is practically infinite.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoYou could say that about anything. I limited my initial statement to educated folks, and presumably those who would like to be one. /history/democracy/milestones -> relatively important.
- Dalewyn 2y agoAs very broad subjects? Yes. But any particular factoid about them is practically irrelevant for most people who don't actually have anything to do with that factoid. Hell, I would even go as far as to say the American Revolution is irrelevant even for most Americans because it has nothing of practical value. We (Americans) all know about it to varying degrees, but again that is due to growing up and being indoctrinated in it.
- mixmastamyk 2y ago"Nothing is important to know besides my lunch time..." yawn
- im3w1l 2y agoThis is such a boring dismissal of a very interesting subject - what information is important to whom and why. A pretty important reason for learning about the history of democracy is to learn how and why to preserve it.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoThis is the most boring knuckledragging subthread I’ve ever read here. Arguing we shouldn’t bother knowing anything but what’s underneath our nose, without qualifications. Not even a theoretically useful philosophy, such as solipsism is being espoused here. All the while masquerading as intelligent conversation. It’s only interesting until you follow it to its conclusion. Anti-intellectualism in a nutshell, and you should be embarrassed to be seen in the vicinity. :D
- Dalewyn 2y agoIs it nice to learn about the American or French Revolutions? Absolutely. But time is a limited resource and must be rationed according to each individual's needs. Most people are far too busy living lives to have time to spare spelunking into tomes; they usually don't even understand what democracy actually is either, but they get by fine in life just the same. The reality is no man can learn all there is to know, it's physically impossible and lines in the sand must be drawn. Given that, which side of the line a certain historical factoid lies will vary; some will consider the American Revolution important and some will not, and some will be indoctrinated by their society, all are fine. Also, I'm going to cite the HN Guidelines here for your reference going forwards: >Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive. >Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.
- IshKebab 2y agoAbsolute rubbish. There are plenty of facts that it would be quite surprising for an educated person not to know. The date of the American Revolution is not one of those facts, except for Americans. Just like it would be unusual for an educated person not to know when the Battle of Hastings was... unless they aren't British. And that's about as close a country to America as you can get. Do you think the educated in Singapore or Kenya learn about the American Revolution? Hell even in the UK we did not spent a single history lesson on it. I'm not exaggerating.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoIt’s not entirely surprising your country would prefer to forget that war. Disappointing perhaps but not surprising. In my opinion, a battle is generally not important compared to a milestone of democracy. I learned about the Magna Carta in 1215 and saw a copy once and appreciate that knowledge. But sure, keep arguing for ignorance and dismissing education if you’d like—we’ll enjoy the show here in posterity.
- IshKebab 2y ago> It’s not entirely surprising your country would prefer to forget that war. Disappointing perhaps but not surprising. Maybe not, but that's hardly the only thing from history that we didn't learn about. I think you're massively underestimating how much history there is. Most of the world has millennia of history. It's not like America where you can cover the entire history of the country. Also history is an optional lesson past age ~14. You can choose to do Geography instead. But I'm not going to call you uneducated for not knowing what a medial moraine is.
- Tainnor 2y ago> Most of the world has millennia of history. And I also feel that it's myopic to think that a historical event is less significant because it happened longer ago and its effects are more diluted. But there are plenty of turning points in history that explain why today's world looks the way it does, the American (or French) revolutions are but some of them.
- bowsamic 2y agoYes, those things cannot be blamed
- Tainnor 2y agoYour problem is that, instead of encouraging people to learn, you're just dismissing people who don't know one very specific historical fact as "uneducated". People in Europe generally know that America is a democracy and many probably also know that it was the first modern one, but to an average European it doesn't matter that much that it happened in the 1770s as opposed to, say, the 1650s.
- mixmastamyk 2y agoIf you didn’t know it, why not learn it now? Here’s your opportunity, one of today’s 10k. Arguing you shouldn’t need to learn it isn’t impressive in any shape or form. It’s middle-brow level (non)curiosity, and less than welcome here.
- Tainnor 2y agoNever said one shouldn't learn new things. Just that it's unreasonable to expect that "every educated person knows X" - because time is finite.