4 ms·

Strange. I think it should be illegal to build any public or commercial space without thorough air conditioning. Because of air quality, dust, allergy and stuff

Strange. I think it should be illegal to build any public or commercial space without thorough air conditioning. Because of air quality, dust, allergy and stuff, and now after Covid, also a concern of viral particles, a proper ventilation system is definitely a necessity - and it costs too little to make a newly installed, good ventilation system into also an air conditioning system, to pass on that possibility.

doctorhandshake 2y ago
Can you say more about this? Heat pumps don't by design ventilate or exchange with outside air. That would be the role of an ERV or HRV or just an exchanger.
- anovikov 2y ago
  That's when we are speaking of an individual system installed in a flat. When we are speaking of a building as a whole, almost all of the cost of installing either a heat pump or just a ventilation system is modifying a building to install air ducts. Which is sometimes a highly invasive, destructive procedure equalling to a near total refurbishment of a building (so this is typically combined: heat insulation + ventilation ducts + general refurbishment, as doing any of the 3 separately won't be much cheaper than doing all 3, anyway). Then you have a single large pipe where a large mass of air enters and and another one where it exits the building. Then it's comparatively not at all hard or expensive to add a massive heat pump so the inlet pipe passes through it (and a heat exchanger between outlet pipe and inlet before, so-called regenerative heating, which will achieve some of the same result, but for free). That's why i think that buiding-scale ventilation systems without heat pumps make no economic sense. They mean leaving a very low hanging fruit, hanging.
  - eru 2y ago
    > That's why i think that buiding-scale ventilation systems without heat pumps make no economic sense. They mean leaving a very low hanging fruit, hanging. That makes some sense. But your call for criminalisation is silly.
eru 2y ago
Your argument that it makes sense to install aircon might be a good one. But I don't understand why that justifies in any way criminalising buildings without aircon? I mean, equally cooking tasty food is not actually that much harder nor more expensive than cooking yucky food. But similarly, that's not a reasonable excuse for outlawing any cuisine (or execution of a cuisine) we disagree with.

doctorhandshake 2y ago

Can you say more about this? Heat pumps don't by design ventilate or exchange with outside air. That would be the role of an ERV or HRV or just an exchanger.

anovikov 2y ago
That's when we are speaking of an individual system installed in a flat. When we are speaking of a building as a whole, almost all of the cost of installing either a heat pump or just a ventilation system is modifying a building to install air ducts. Which is sometimes a highly invasive, destructive procedure equalling to a near total refurbishment of a building (so this is typically combined: heat insulation + ventilation ducts + general refurbishment, as doing any of the 3 separately won't be much cheaper than doing all 3, anyway). Then you have a single large pipe where a large mass of air enters and and another one where it exits the building. Then it's comparatively not at all hard or expensive to add a massive heat pump so the inlet pipe passes through it (and a heat exchanger between outlet pipe and inlet before, so-called regenerative heating, which will achieve some of the same result, but for free). That's why i think that buiding-scale ventilation systems without heat pumps make no economic sense. They mean leaving a very low hanging fruit, hanging.
- eru 2y ago
  > That's why i think that buiding-scale ventilation systems without heat pumps make no economic sense. They mean leaving a very low hanging fruit, hanging. That makes some sense. But your call for criminalisation is silly.

eru 2y ago

Your argument that it makes sense to install aircon might be a good one. But I don't understand why that justifies in any way criminalising buildings without aircon? I mean, equally cooking tasty food is not actually that much harder nor more expensive than cooking yucky food. But similarly, that's not a reasonable excuse for outlawing any cuisine (or execution of a cuisine) we disagree with.