3 ms·

No. We shouldn't make it easer for criminals to conduct terrorism, human trafficking, fraud etc just to make it slightly more economical for startups to compete

No. We shouldn't make it easer for criminals to conduct terrorism, human trafficking, fraud etc just to make it slightly more economical for startups to compete with Visa/Mastercard.

akira2501 2y ago
When was the credit network used to finance terrorism? If we can't prevent terrorism then isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected? We'd prefer if terrorists use cash? Or we believe that if they can't use Amex it's impossible to use cash and therefore terrorism is defeated? Also, when the startups compete with Visa/Mastercard, they provide that service to small businesses. So really, it's to make it massively more economical and easy for humans to start businesses that take credit.
- rootusrootus 2y ago
  > isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected? Isn't that advantage precisely because of AML/KYC requirements on the networks?
- threeseed 2y ago
  > We'd prefer if terrorists use cash Yes. It is a million times easier to catch criminals trying to physically launder large volumes of cash than it is to track money flowing through multiple companies (on/off-shore, crypto, different owners, different jurisdictions etc). Why do you think AML/KYC is such a priority ?
  - akira2501 2y ago
    > It is a million times easier to catch criminals trying to physically launder large volumes of cash Which is odd because all the arrests and cases I see published all catch the money laundering activity because it reached the banking system, not because an alert officer spotted large volumes of physical cash. > Why do you think AML/KYC is such a priority ? I honestly don't know. I can't see any evidence which suggested it needed to be made a priority generally. It looks like most of this fraud involves real estate.
- blindriver 2y ago
  Gofundme. This was very common early on. People would create campaigns and then it would get funded by stolen credit cards and withdrawn.
shrimp_emoji 2y ago
To rephrase: we should make it harder for everyone to do stuff because of the tiny minority criminals we want law enforcement to catch (and whose job we need to make easier by way of crime-preempting hacks in every system criminals might use because otherwise it would be too difficult for law enforcement to do their job).
- threeseed 2y ago
  Yes. That's how society works. If the priority was to make life as easy as possible for everyone then we wouldn't have laws at all.
olalonde 2y ago
As if AML/KYC actually prevented anything...

No. We shouldn't make it easer for criminals to conduct terrorism, human trafficking, fraud etc just to make it slightly more economical for startups to compete with Visa/Mastercard.

akira2501 2y ago

When was the credit network used to finance terrorism? If we can't prevent terrorism then isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected? We'd prefer if terrorists use cash? Or we believe that if they can't use Amex it's impossible to use cash and therefore terrorism is defeated? Also, when the startups compete with Visa/Mastercard, they provide that service to small businesses. So really, it's to make it massively more economical and easy for humans to start businesses that take credit.

rootusrootus 2y ago
> isn't it an advantage to have them move their funds on a network that can be completely traced and retroactively inspected? Isn't that advantage precisely because of AML/KYC requirements on the networks?
threeseed 2y ago
> We'd prefer if terrorists use cash Yes. It is a million times easier to catch criminals trying to physically launder large volumes of cash than it is to track money flowing through multiple companies (on/off-shore, crypto, different owners, different jurisdictions etc). Why do you think AML/KYC is such a priority ?
- akira2501 2y ago
  > It is a million times easier to catch criminals trying to physically launder large volumes of cash Which is odd because all the arrests and cases I see published all catch the money laundering activity because it reached the banking system, not because an alert officer spotted large volumes of physical cash. > Why do you think AML/KYC is such a priority ? I honestly don't know. I can't see any evidence which suggested it needed to be made a priority generally. It looks like most of this fraud involves real estate.
blindriver 2y ago
Gofundme. This was very common early on. People would create campaigns and then it would get funded by stolen credit cards and withdrawn.

shrimp_emoji 2y ago

To rephrase: we should make it harder for everyone to do stuff because of the tiny minority criminals we want law enforcement to catch (and whose job we need to make easier by way of crime-preempting hacks in every system criminals might use because otherwise it would be too difficult for law enforcement to do their job).

threeseed 2y ago
Yes. That's how society works. If the priority was to make life as easy as possible for everyone then we wouldn't have laws at all.

olalonde 2y ago

As if AML/KYC actually prevented anything...