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> I am more surprised that Google did comply with the order Why would it be surprising that a company complies with a court order or legislation of a country t

> I am more surprised that Google did comply with the order Why would it be surprising that a company complies with a court order or legislation of a country they operate in? Does Google routinely ignore court orders in the US? > what's preventing them from returning bogus results for queries which are inconvenient to their other business units like Youtube? Technically nothing. The threat of fines in case this is seen as an abuse is the real blocker.

crote 2y ago
> Why would it be surprising that a company complies with a court order or legislation of a country they operate in? Does Google routinely ignore court orders in the US? Because it's a ruling by a lower court which sets a very dangerous precedent. I would expect a company like Google to appeal this until the French equivalent of the Supreme Court - or even a European court if possible. Even if they still had to do this, I would expect them to suspend service like OpenDNS is doing rather than just comply. DNS is just too important to mess around with! > Technically nothing. The threat of fines in case this is seen as an abuse is the real blocker. Who's going to fine them? As far as I'm aware, DNS is pretty much unregulated. There's no law saying you have to pass DNS as-is, is there?
- buran77 2y ago
  > a ruling by a lower court which sets a very dangerous precedent There's no precedent of any kind being set here. Court orders have to be obeyed unless overturned, this isn't an unprecedented 2024 thing. France has a civil law legal system, not the precedent based common law legal system (like the US for example). This court set no legal precedent, it issued a ruling on this particular case. > I would expect a company like Google to appeal this If they have solid legal grounds to appeal. Are you aware of one? > rather than just comply Assume ceasing the service entirely is costing them more than complying. > Who's going to fine them? As far as I'm aware, DNS is pretty much unregulated. A court, for not respecting a court order. The legal system and law in general are almost never common sense and there's a reason it takes so much work and experience to navigate them properly. If you've done none of that work, assume you're wrong. If you're a techie and you start hearing people insist with personal opinions on how those RAM traces should be made longer and straighter you'd wonder why they keep talking.
  - glimshe 2y ago
    Lawyers are pretty good at finding reasons to appeal against judgements. It is reasonable to suggest that Google should appeal despite the parent not being aware of reasons for appealing. You are mostly right on the civil vs common law systems, but also have in mind that a sufficient body of decisions when interpreting a law do create increasingly stronger recommendations for future decisions even in civil systems.
    - buran77 2y ago
      > Lawyers are pretty good at finding reasons to appeal against judgements. Good ones sure are. But OP saying "Google should appeal" implies OP is aware of one solid such reason, a reason why the French court was wrong, and Google was wrong to comply. Instead they just mentioned precedents, lower courts, or that you're free to ignore a legal court order because there's no "DNS regulation". I get that Google has a vested interest to find any way to make it work because it supports their business. But OP's statement sounded to me more like "I don't understand the law but don't like the result so it should be changed", with no solid reasoning of any kind at the time of the statement.
- jsnell 2y ago
  > Because it's a ruling by a lower court which sets a very dangerous precedent. I would expect a company like Google to appeal this until the French equivalent of the Supreme Court - or even a European court if possible. You can't appeal a court decision just because you don't like it. There needs to be some kind of basis for the appeal. What did you have in mind? Note that the CJEU has already ruled that IP and DNS blocks for this purpose are compatible with EU laws.

crote 2y ago

> Why would it be surprising that a company complies with a court order or legislation of a country they operate in? Does Google routinely ignore court orders in the US? Because it's a ruling by a lower court which sets a very dangerous precedent. I would expect a company like Google to appeal this until the French equivalent of the Supreme Court - or even a European court if possible. Even if they still had to do this, I would expect them to suspend service like OpenDNS is doing rather than just comply. DNS is just too important to mess around with! > Technically nothing. The threat of fines in case this is seen as an abuse is the real blocker. Who's going to fine them? As far as I'm aware, DNS is pretty much unregulated. There's no law saying you have to pass DNS as-is, is there?

buran77 2y ago
> a ruling by a lower court which sets a very dangerous precedent There's no precedent of any kind being set here. Court orders have to be obeyed unless overturned, this isn't an unprecedented 2024 thing. France has a civil law legal system, not the precedent based common law legal system (like the US for example). This court set no legal precedent, it issued a ruling on this particular case. > I would expect a company like Google to appeal this If they have solid legal grounds to appeal. Are you aware of one? > rather than just comply Assume ceasing the service entirely is costing them more than complying. > Who's going to fine them? As far as I'm aware, DNS is pretty much unregulated. A court, for not respecting a court order. The legal system and law in general are almost never common sense and there's a reason it takes so much work and experience to navigate them properly. If you've done none of that work, assume you're wrong. If you're a techie and you start hearing people insist with personal opinions on how those RAM traces should be made longer and straighter you'd wonder why they keep talking.
- glimshe 2y ago
  Lawyers are pretty good at finding reasons to appeal against judgements. It is reasonable to suggest that Google should appeal despite the parent not being aware of reasons for appealing. You are mostly right on the civil vs common law systems, but also have in mind that a sufficient body of decisions when interpreting a law do create increasingly stronger recommendations for future decisions even in civil systems.
  - buran77 2y ago
    > Lawyers are pretty good at finding reasons to appeal against judgements. Good ones sure are. But OP saying "Google should appeal" implies OP is aware of one solid such reason, a reason why the French court was wrong, and Google was wrong to comply. Instead they just mentioned precedents, lower courts, or that you're free to ignore a legal court order because there's no "DNS regulation". I get that Google has a vested interest to find any way to make it work because it supports their business. But OP's statement sounded to me more like "I don't understand the law but don't like the result so it should be changed", with no solid reasoning of any kind at the time of the statement.
jsnell 2y ago
> Because it's a ruling by a lower court which sets a very dangerous precedent. I would expect a company like Google to appeal this until the French equivalent of the Supreme Court - or even a European court if possible. You can't appeal a court decision just because you don't like it. There needs to be some kind of basis for the appeal. What did you have in mind? Note that the CJEU has already ruled that IP and DNS blocks for this purpose are compatible with EU laws.