8 ms·

Russian death camp: Three stories of Ukrainian prisoners

86 points by dralley 2y ago

PeterHolzwarth 2y ago
In an age of strong opinions, ambiguity, and internalized whataboutism, it's good, though disturbing, to periodically get reminded of what evil looks like and who the bad guys actually are.
- therobots927 2y ago
  Russia vs Ukraine? Yes it’s clear who the bad guy is in that situation (Russia). But there are plenty of countries allied with the US, and even the US itself sometimes, that commit atrocities like this. Guantanamo, for example, has inmates that are known by the government to be innocent who still haven’t been released. Probably because the government knows they would be swarmed by reporters trying to get full details on what was going on inside that torture chamber. Morality is besides the point. All that matters is your passport. Mine happens to be American. Doesn’t mean that I have to pretend like the US is morally superior to anyone.
  - emptysongglass 2y ago
    Please don't whatabout in a thread clearly about two countries that are not the US. There are plenty of threads to go around about US imperialism that are a better place for your comment.
    - bananabiscuit 2y ago
      It’s necessary to whatabout when threads about Russia come up because there are usually plenty of top rated comments (see above) dehumanizing Russians and calling for their extermination. I have never seen any thread critical of US meddling in world affairs express the same hatred of US citizens and supporter's. “whataboutism” should not be used as defense against double standards. Double standards should be clearly called out.
      - emptysongglass 2y ago
        I don't see any comments calling for the extermination of Russians. It sounds like you're making things up to support your own agenda.
      - rainworld 2y ago
        [flagged]
        fractallyte 2y ago
        What's an "Azovite"? And "ancestral hatred of Russians and Russia"? If my grandparents and parents were victims of Soviet aggression/invasion/genocide, what right do you have to question "ancestral hatred"? The fact that Russia is doing it again is enough to arouse intense emotions in many European populations.
        rainworld 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade You know, the ones with the funny tattoos. I’m sure your ancestors would have recognized those. >Soviet Equating modern Russia and the SU is a widely deployed sleight of hand at the moment. Same with pre-Soviet Russia. No matter how little sense it actually makes. “Show me on this map where the Tsar/Stalin hurt you.” But there is a common thread: Russia was, is, and will remain for a long while the predominant regional power. Pays to have a friendly relationship with them. Ami will go home. Sooner or later.
        rainworld 2y ago
        [Replying to a now deleted post misquoting https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Address_concerning_the_events_in_Ukraine https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Address_concerning_the_events...] >claims these things What he actually claims: I would like to emphasise again that Ukraine is not just a neighbouring country for us. It is an inalienable part of our own history, culture and spiritual space. These are our comrades, those dearest to us – not only colleagues, friends and people who once served together, but also relatives, people bound by blood, by family ties. >criticizes Lenin and Stalin He criticizes the Soviets for creating Ukraine as we know it—Donbass, Crimea and so on. Artificial borders, a people divided; precisely to prevent the SU from becoming synonymous with Russia. And it wasn’t just the Soviets who sought to use Ukraine against Russia. Every day Ukraine-supporters whine about what they consider lackluster support from the West. What’s actually happening is obvious but wishful thinking and a quality reality distortion field prevent enlightenment: While there are real limits of supply, and at times they might have in fact entertained the idea of “winning,” the basic goal is and has always been to cause as much death and destruction as possible without actually getting into a shooting war with Russia. And, of course, most of that death and destruction happens in Ukraine. And then they have the gall to cry “scorched earth.”
    - deleted 2y ago
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    - therobots927 2y ago
      I have a strong suspicion the parent comment I was replying to was written by someone that thinks America has an infinite moral bank account can draw from to escape culpability for its actions. Maybe I misinterpreted that and if so you’re correct. But the way it was worded seemed pretty clear to me that the author sees the world like a Star Wars movie of good and evil. It’s not. In the real world the Jedi kill kids too.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        >>was written by someone that thinks America Dude, you're the only person here who mentioned America. Feels like you're projecting what you think other people think and reply to that, not to what they actually wrote.
        therobots927 2y ago
        That’s fair I think that might have happened in this case.
  - lawn 2y ago
    The difference is, of course, scale. The evil of Nazi Germany is notable because of the scale of their atrocities. This is the same with Russia where the evil is so systematic and widespread that it boggles the mind. Trying to compare the evil of Russia today to something like Guantanamo can only be seen as furthering Russia's propaganda.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - therobots927 2y ago
      Okay fine it’s a scale. You got me, the US is morally superior to plenty of countries. It was hyperbolic to say it isn’t. But still, there is no such thing as good and evil here. Just different shades of evil.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        I'll be honest with you - it feels like the only reason why you brought up US here is to say those last two sentences.
        therobots927 2y ago
        Another reason I might bring up the US is because in certain contexts especially concerning geopolitics, references to Russia as “the bad guy” is used to justify all kinds of things. The same way Communism (I.e the USSR) was used as a boogeyman to justify US behavior in Vietnam (bombing civilians). Does that mean that I don’t support the US over Russia? Of course I do. I’m a citizen of the US. But I don’t like language like “the real bad guy”. It’s not whataboutism in that context.
        gambiting 2y ago
        I mean, I appreciate that you comment from your own perspective as a US citizen, but I think it's just jarring because 1) even the article didn't mention it, so it feels like a forced comment to say "well, there are only shades of grey". 2) folks who aren't US citizens don't vibe with your perspective the same way. As a Pole I see Russians as unequivcally "the bad guys" because they have done the exact same kind of thing to our country to Polish people in the past. The tales of Polish prisoners in Russian work camps are numerous and pretty much the same as this article describes.
  - fodmap 2y ago
    One wrong doesn't justify another wrong. The scale of Putin's Russia crimes are stratospheric. It isn't only tortures, there's raping, kids kidnapping, castration, targeting civilians with bombs, etc. And that isn't all, in particular if you add what Putin's regime is doing against their own people. Also keep an eye on what's still happening in Syria, and what Wagner is doing in the Sahel region.
    - therobots927 2y ago
      I am no fan of Russia and I thought I made that pretty clear? Also… targeting civilians with bombs… where have I heard about that happening lately…
- PoignardAzur 2y ago
  > what evil looks like and who the bad guys actually are. Whataboutism aside, I really don't get what you're trying to imply with that "actually". Like, is there some country whose blemished record we pretend is terrible, but is "actually" okay when compared to Russia? Julian Assange was recently freed after spending 12 years either cooped in an embassy or in literal prisons because of the US's relentless campaign to punish him for exposing the US's war crimes. (And yes, there are many things to dislike about Assange and his support for Russia is a pretty big one, but the US would have hunted him regardless of these things.) Is the message that the US aren't actually the bad guys? That they're only the bad guys until you compare them to more violent and more openly criminal regimes? In that logic, isn't Russia not-actually-the-bad-guys because it has committed fewer war crimes than ISIS or the Nazis or the Myanmar junta? (Or maybe not. I don't know the numbers for any of those.) The lesson can't be that we're periodically reminded of evil when it's unambiguous and performed by polities opposed to US hegemony. All states do evil given the opportunity, and the only way to close off that opportunity and call them out whenever it happens, whether they are Russian, American, Israeli, Arab, French, Brazilian, Papuan or whatever else.
simion314 2y ago
It is disturbing and fascination to see a big portion of the online Russians that are living in a parallel universe, with a parallel history and parallel reality (or maybe I am wrong and most online Russians that produce comments are trolls) , so expect a lot of comments denying history and reality.
- jokoon 2y ago
  Most Russians probably know they are being lied to, but they're obviously afraid to talk or organize protest: they just can't dissent, it's too dangerous or just not worth it. This makes it much easier for Putin to install this parallel reality. Russians are not stupid, this is a textbook example of a modern dictatorship. Even if Putin goes away, it might not make Russia better: Putin may be the smartest guy in the room right now, unfortunately.
  - simion314 2y ago
    I am talking about the people you meat online, they know english and they could read the real history and use the brain to decide what is true. Though I witness the Zeds using unnatural logic in their conversation/debating. I bet there are tons of Russians much smarter then Putin in Russia, the problem is that the KGB is behind Putin for now.
    - jokoon 2y ago
      Those are either bots, trolls or sophists who repeat lies they believe. Those are not the russian people, they are just going to make noise like a lot of noise we see on the internet.
      - simion314 2y ago
        But if a Romanian would start telling some bullshit like how good communism was I assure you 10x more Romanians will pop up and put him in the right place. I never seen a Russian correcting a Zed when say they pretend that USSR collaboration with nazi never happened or call it a "pact" and pact is "very good" but "alliance" is very bad or "supporting" is bad, but "pact with nazi to invade and split the world" is good. And about logic, more then one Zed was complaining that Ukraine hitting a military shit outside the SMO zone defined but Puttin is terrorism but when Ruzzia hits a power station or civilian building it is not terrorism because the target is inside the SMO. No good Russian popped in the discussion to say he disagress with this point, my guess this is how was presented on Ruzzian media and how any good Zed will repeat it even if the logic is unnatural.
gambiting 2y ago
As a Pole, where my family has stories of being treated like this by Russians, and in general as a nation we have plenty of stories of suffering at the hands of Russians in exactly these kinds of cicumstances - I'm 1) not surprised this is happening at all 2) it makes my blood boil to a degree that cannot be explained in any rational way. When Poland seems to be ramping up in terms of military and talks about being "ready" for conflict with Russia, it's not because anyone here wants to go and fight - it's because we know exactly what Ukraine is going through because Russians have been doing exactly this shit to many other nations before. Their brutality knows no bounds.
- bitcharmer 2y ago
  Another Pole here. Yup, it seems most westerners choose to be completely ignorant to what russians are and what they represent. And yes, history is important because knowing it gives you an immediate insight into the russian mentality and why none of their European neighbors treat them as a civilised society.
OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
It is not looking good for Ukraine at the moment. Come January 2025, it will likely get a lot worse.
- dralley 2y ago
  Unless you're speaking about American politics, the opposite is true. Enormous quantities of European artillery production are finally coming online while Russia's stockpiles of artillery and vehicles are finally running dry. They won't "run out", but they can't continue pushing forwards with only what they are able to produce fresh themselves. Much like the missile strikes - sure they won't literally "run out" as long as they continue production but Russia can no longer throw 500 missiles a month at Ukraine anymore because the stockpiles are gone. Now the biggest problem is glide bombs, but that is being mitigated also. The situation with the power grid is quite serious, though. It's going to be a very difficult winter for civilians. It's a damn shame that western nations couldn't pony up sufficient air defense before it was needed rather than waiting until after it was too late.
  - OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
    >Unless you're speaking about American politics, the opposite is true. ...The situation with the power grid is quite serious, though. It's going to be a very difficult winter for civilians. This is what I was talking about.
    - jaybrendansmith 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
        I think you overestimate the voting public and underestimate the institutional support he has. Rumors of his political demise have been floated for years, "This time, for sure!" and he is the nominee for all that.
shrubble 2y ago
[flagged]
- gambiting 2y ago
  >>Zelensky and most of the federal govt of Ukraine is in on it That's quite a bold assumption that literally doesn't line up with anything I have ever read, and I've been following this war very closely. Any reason why you're saying that?
  - shrubble 2y ago
    The theft is legendary and there are no auditing controls on the money given to Ukraine. To the point that even African nations are complaining about the influx of arms flowing into their countries as arms meant for Ukraine are sold off. https://statehouse.gov.ng/news/president-buhari-calls-for-tighter-security-around-borders-in-lake-chad-basin-with-the-proliferation-of-weapons-from-russia-ukraine-war/ https://statehouse.gov.ng/news/president-buhari-calls-for-ti...
    - gambiting 2y ago
      >>The theft is legendary and there are no auditing controls on the money given to Ukraine. Sure, that one I've heard - but to go from there to "Zelensky is on it [genocide of the ukrainian people]" is quite a leap.
fractallyte 2y ago
The issue with this situation is that it cannot be resolved through 'peace negotiations'. This is pure, systemic evil, on a state level. Russia was never punished for its crimes the way Germany was after WW2. This is the result. Peace will only be possible when that system is dismantled and destroyed - with everything that entails. Russia is not just digging itself into a hole, but into a grave.
- nathanaldensr 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - stouset 2y ago
    Why is it that any time someone posits that a problem exists, you straw man that they’re proposing the most extreme solution? Someone says Russia is a problem? They must mean we should annex it! Someone says landlords are a problem? They must mean we should abolish private ownership and institute communism! And of course the ultimate irony, you accuse everyone else of politicizing things. This isn’t a healthy approach to discourse. I hope you can understand that. Please aim higher.
  - tim333 2y ago
    It seems quite often when Russia loses a war they then change their system. See Japan/WW1 and the communist takeover, Afghanistan and the collapse of the USSR. Quite possibly if Russia loses in Ukraine as in gets sent home then something similar will happen. There's an odd situation where the US seems to be drip feeding aid to Ukraine so as to prevent it from winning as they are worried about the Putin government collapsing leading to chaos. Personally I'd rather like to see that government collapse. (good video on that https://youtu.be/CxZ402BMSs8 https://youtu.be/CxZ402BMSs8)
deleted 2y ago
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tgz 2y ago
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jdmark 2y ago
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- dang 2y ago
  Users flagged it. We can only guess why users flag things, but here's what I can tell you: (1) it was an unusually large number of flags; (2) the average account age of the flaggers is more than 8 years, and most are active contributors on a wide range of topics; and (3) I looked through all their flagging histories and found only one whose flags were consistently political and one-sided. That is not the case with any of the others, and nearly all seem to be using flagging as intended. In the past it has been helpful to mention a list of "users who flagged X also flagged the following", so in that spirit, I've included a list below. The point here is not that all those other flags were good (a few were in fact bad), it's that the accounts are flagging a wide variety of stories and not in a predictable way. --- In what format is Euro2024 broadcast in your country? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837829 Dev rejects CVE severity, makes his GitHub repo read-only - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837791 Goldman Sachs says the return on investment for AI might be disappointing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 Farewell MongoDB: why you only need PostgreSQL - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40836988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40836988 Analisis Tingkat Kemenangan Pada Berbagai Jenis Permainan Slot Di Mahongbet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40835300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40835300 DeSantis' Ban on Cultivated Meat: Food Freedom Battered in the State of Florida - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40834342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40834342 Welcome to the Scene [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40833179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40833179 That job you applied for might not exist - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828708 Anyone likes mechanical keyboard sounds? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828566 Oklahoma orders schools to teach Bible 'immediately' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352 Italian Revenue Agency demands 1B from Google for tax evasion - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812608 The rarest book in American literature: Poe's Tamerlane - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40795556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40795556 Why is Microsofts chat widget over 6MB of JavaScript code? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40785986 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40785986 Why do we still teach people to calculate? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771627 How to do the jhanas - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771514 OpenAI's GPT-5 Pushed Back to Late 2025, but Promises PhD-Level Abilities - https://news.ycombinator.com/item https://news.ycombinator.com/item? id=40759361 I Will Fucking Piledrive You If You Mention AI Again - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40734228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40734228 The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding - https://news.ycombinator.com/item https://news.ycombinator.com/item? id=40689779 Nitrogen dioxide exposure due to gas and propane combustion by U.S. stoves - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40407472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40407472 Git commit messages are useless - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39135304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39135304 Asian Boss planted deep blue YouTuber and pretended he was a 'man on the street' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29888933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29888933
jacques-noris 2y ago
Is this a serious source?
- henry_flower 2y ago
  it is

86 points by dralley 2y ago

In an age of strong opinions, ambiguity, and internalized whataboutism, it's good, though disturbing, to periodically get reminded of what evil looks like and who the bad guys actually are.

therobots927 2y ago
Russia vs Ukraine? Yes it’s clear who the bad guy is in that situation (Russia). But there are plenty of countries allied with the US, and even the US itself sometimes, that commit atrocities like this. Guantanamo, for example, has inmates that are known by the government to be innocent who still haven’t been released. Probably because the government knows they would be swarmed by reporters trying to get full details on what was going on inside that torture chamber. Morality is besides the point. All that matters is your passport. Mine happens to be American. Doesn’t mean that I have to pretend like the US is morally superior to anyone.
- emptysongglass 2y ago
  Please don't whatabout in a thread clearly about two countries that are not the US. There are plenty of threads to go around about US imperialism that are a better place for your comment.
  - bananabiscuit 2y ago
    It’s necessary to whatabout when threads about Russia come up because there are usually plenty of top rated comments (see above) dehumanizing Russians and calling for their extermination. I have never seen any thread critical of US meddling in world affairs express the same hatred of US citizens and supporter's. “whataboutism” should not be used as defense against double standards. Double standards should be clearly called out.
    - emptysongglass 2y ago
      I don't see any comments calling for the extermination of Russians. It sounds like you're making things up to support your own agenda.
    - rainworld 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - fractallyte 2y ago
        What's an "Azovite"? And "ancestral hatred of Russians and Russia"? If my grandparents and parents were victims of Soviet aggression/invasion/genocide, what right do you have to question "ancestral hatred"? The fact that Russia is doing it again is enough to arouse intense emotions in many European populations.
        rainworld 2y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade You know, the ones with the funny tattoos. I’m sure your ancestors would have recognized those. >Soviet Equating modern Russia and the SU is a widely deployed sleight of hand at the moment. Same with pre-Soviet Russia. No matter how little sense it actually makes. “Show me on this map where the Tsar/Stalin hurt you.” But there is a common thread: Russia was, is, and will remain for a long while the predominant regional power. Pays to have a friendly relationship with them. Ami will go home. Sooner or later.
        rainworld 2y ago
        [Replying to a now deleted post misquoting https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Address_concerning_the_events_in_Ukraine https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Address_concerning_the_events...] >claims these things What he actually claims: I would like to emphasise again that Ukraine is not just a neighbouring country for us. It is an inalienable part of our own history, culture and spiritual space. These are our comrades, those dearest to us – not only colleagues, friends and people who once served together, but also relatives, people bound by blood, by family ties. >criticizes Lenin and Stalin He criticizes the Soviets for creating Ukraine as we know it—Donbass, Crimea and so on. Artificial borders, a people divided; precisely to prevent the SU from becoming synonymous with Russia. And it wasn’t just the Soviets who sought to use Ukraine against Russia. Every day Ukraine-supporters whine about what they consider lackluster support from the West. What’s actually happening is obvious but wishful thinking and a quality reality distortion field prevent enlightenment: While there are real limits of supply, and at times they might have in fact entertained the idea of “winning,” the basic goal is and has always been to cause as much death and destruction as possible without actually getting into a shooting war with Russia. And, of course, most of that death and destruction happens in Ukraine. And then they have the gall to cry “scorched earth.”
  - deleted 2y ago
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  - therobots927 2y ago
    I have a strong suspicion the parent comment I was replying to was written by someone that thinks America has an infinite moral bank account can draw from to escape culpability for its actions. Maybe I misinterpreted that and if so you’re correct. But the way it was worded seemed pretty clear to me that the author sees the world like a Star Wars movie of good and evil. It’s not. In the real world the Jedi kill kids too.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      >>was written by someone that thinks America Dude, you're the only person here who mentioned America. Feels like you're projecting what you think other people think and reply to that, not to what they actually wrote.
      - therobots927 2y ago
        That’s fair I think that might have happened in this case.
- lawn 2y ago
  The difference is, of course, scale. The evil of Nazi Germany is notable because of the scale of their atrocities. This is the same with Russia where the evil is so systematic and widespread that it boggles the mind. Trying to compare the evil of Russia today to something like Guantanamo can only be seen as furthering Russia's propaganda.
  - deleted 2y ago
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  - therobots927 2y ago
    Okay fine it’s a scale. You got me, the US is morally superior to plenty of countries. It was hyperbolic to say it isn’t. But still, there is no such thing as good and evil here. Just different shades of evil.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      I'll be honest with you - it feels like the only reason why you brought up US here is to say those last two sentences.
      - therobots927 2y ago
        Another reason I might bring up the US is because in certain contexts especially concerning geopolitics, references to Russia as “the bad guy” is used to justify all kinds of things. The same way Communism (I.e the USSR) was used as a boogeyman to justify US behavior in Vietnam (bombing civilians). Does that mean that I don’t support the US over Russia? Of course I do. I’m a citizen of the US. But I don’t like language like “the real bad guy”. It’s not whataboutism in that context.
        gambiting 2y ago
        I mean, I appreciate that you comment from your own perspective as a US citizen, but I think it's just jarring because 1) even the article didn't mention it, so it feels like a forced comment to say "well, there are only shades of grey". 2) folks who aren't US citizens don't vibe with your perspective the same way. As a Pole I see Russians as unequivcally "the bad guys" because they have done the exact same kind of thing to our country to Polish people in the past. The tales of Polish prisoners in Russian work camps are numerous and pretty much the same as this article describes.
- fodmap 2y ago
  One wrong doesn't justify another wrong. The scale of Putin's Russia crimes are stratospheric. It isn't only tortures, there's raping, kids kidnapping, castration, targeting civilians with bombs, etc. And that isn't all, in particular if you add what Putin's regime is doing against their own people. Also keep an eye on what's still happening in Syria, and what Wagner is doing in the Sahel region.
  - therobots927 2y ago
    I am no fan of Russia and I thought I made that pretty clear? Also… targeting civilians with bombs… where have I heard about that happening lately…
PoignardAzur 2y ago
> what evil looks like and who the bad guys actually are. Whataboutism aside, I really don't get what you're trying to imply with that "actually". Like, is there some country whose blemished record we pretend is terrible, but is "actually" okay when compared to Russia? Julian Assange was recently freed after spending 12 years either cooped in an embassy or in literal prisons because of the US's relentless campaign to punish him for exposing the US's war crimes. (And yes, there are many things to dislike about Assange and his support for Russia is a pretty big one, but the US would have hunted him regardless of these things.) Is the message that the US aren't actually the bad guys? That they're only the bad guys until you compare them to more violent and more openly criminal regimes? In that logic, isn't Russia not-actually-the-bad-guys because it has committed fewer war crimes than ISIS or the Nazis or the Myanmar junta? (Or maybe not. I don't know the numbers for any of those.) The lesson can't be that we're periodically reminded of evil when it's unambiguous and performed by polities opposed to US hegemony. All states do evil given the opportunity, and the only way to close off that opportunity and call them out whenever it happens, whether they are Russian, American, Israeli, Arab, French, Brazilian, Papuan or whatever else.

simion314 2y ago

It is disturbing and fascination to see a big portion of the online Russians that are living in a parallel universe, with a parallel history and parallel reality (or maybe I am wrong and most online Russians that produce comments are trolls) , so expect a lot of comments denying history and reality.

jokoon 2y ago
Most Russians probably know they are being lied to, but they're obviously afraid to talk or organize protest: they just can't dissent, it's too dangerous or just not worth it. This makes it much easier for Putin to install this parallel reality. Russians are not stupid, this is a textbook example of a modern dictatorship. Even if Putin goes away, it might not make Russia better: Putin may be the smartest guy in the room right now, unfortunately.
- simion314 2y ago
  I am talking about the people you meat online, they know english and they could read the real history and use the brain to decide what is true. Though I witness the Zeds using unnatural logic in their conversation/debating. I bet there are tons of Russians much smarter then Putin in Russia, the problem is that the KGB is behind Putin for now.
  - jokoon 2y ago
    Those are either bots, trolls or sophists who repeat lies they believe. Those are not the russian people, they are just going to make noise like a lot of noise we see on the internet.
    - simion314 2y ago
      But if a Romanian would start telling some bullshit like how good communism was I assure you 10x more Romanians will pop up and put him in the right place. I never seen a Russian correcting a Zed when say they pretend that USSR collaboration with nazi never happened or call it a "pact" and pact is "very good" but "alliance" is very bad or "supporting" is bad, but "pact with nazi to invade and split the world" is good. And about logic, more then one Zed was complaining that Ukraine hitting a military shit outside the SMO zone defined but Puttin is terrorism but when Ruzzia hits a power station or civilian building it is not terrorism because the target is inside the SMO. No good Russian popped in the discussion to say he disagress with this point, my guess this is how was presented on Ruzzian media and how any good Zed will repeat it even if the logic is unnatural.

gambiting 2y ago

As a Pole, where my family has stories of being treated like this by Russians, and in general as a nation we have plenty of stories of suffering at the hands of Russians in exactly these kinds of cicumstances - I'm 1) not surprised this is happening at all 2) it makes my blood boil to a degree that cannot be explained in any rational way. When Poland seems to be ramping up in terms of military and talks about being "ready" for conflict with Russia, it's not because anyone here wants to go and fight - it's because we know exactly what Ukraine is going through because Russians have been doing exactly this shit to many other nations before. Their brutality knows no bounds.

bitcharmer 2y ago
Another Pole here. Yup, it seems most westerners choose to be completely ignorant to what russians are and what they represent. And yes, history is important because knowing it gives you an immediate insight into the russian mentality and why none of their European neighbors treat them as a civilised society.

OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago

It is not looking good for Ukraine at the moment. Come January 2025, it will likely get a lot worse.

dralley 2y ago
Unless you're speaking about American politics, the opposite is true. Enormous quantities of European artillery production are finally coming online while Russia's stockpiles of artillery and vehicles are finally running dry. They won't "run out", but they can't continue pushing forwards with only what they are able to produce fresh themselves. Much like the missile strikes - sure they won't literally "run out" as long as they continue production but Russia can no longer throw 500 missiles a month at Ukraine anymore because the stockpiles are gone. Now the biggest problem is glide bombs, but that is being mitigated also. The situation with the power grid is quite serious, though. It's going to be a very difficult winter for civilians. It's a damn shame that western nations couldn't pony up sufficient air defense before it was needed rather than waiting until after it was too late.
- OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
  >Unless you're speaking about American politics, the opposite is true. ...The situation with the power grid is quite serious, though. It's going to be a very difficult winter for civilians. This is what I was talking about.
  - jaybrendansmith 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - OldGuyInTheClub 2y ago
      I think you overestimate the voting public and underestimate the institutional support he has. Rumors of his political demise have been floated for years, "This time, for sure!" and he is the nominee for all that.

shrubble 2y ago

[flagged]

gambiting 2y ago
>>Zelensky and most of the federal govt of Ukraine is in on it That's quite a bold assumption that literally doesn't line up with anything I have ever read, and I've been following this war very closely. Any reason why you're saying that?
- shrubble 2y ago
  The theft is legendary and there are no auditing controls on the money given to Ukraine. To the point that even African nations are complaining about the influx of arms flowing into their countries as arms meant for Ukraine are sold off. https://statehouse.gov.ng/news/president-buhari-calls-for-tighter-security-around-borders-in-lake-chad-basin-with-the-proliferation-of-weapons-from-russia-ukraine-war/ https://statehouse.gov.ng/news/president-buhari-calls-for-ti...
  - gambiting 2y ago
    >>The theft is legendary and there are no auditing controls on the money given to Ukraine. Sure, that one I've heard - but to go from there to "Zelensky is on it [genocide of the ukrainian people]" is quite a leap.

fractallyte 2y ago

The issue with this situation is that it cannot be resolved through 'peace negotiations'. This is pure, systemic evil, on a state level. Russia was never punished for its crimes the way Germany was after WW2. This is the result. Peace will only be possible when that system is dismantled and destroyed - with everything that entails. Russia is not just digging itself into a hole, but into a grave.

nathanaldensr 2y ago
[flagged]
- stouset 2y ago
  Why is it that any time someone posits that a problem exists, you straw man that they’re proposing the most extreme solution? Someone says Russia is a problem? They must mean we should annex it! Someone says landlords are a problem? They must mean we should abolish private ownership and institute communism! And of course the ultimate irony, you accuse everyone else of politicizing things. This isn’t a healthy approach to discourse. I hope you can understand that. Please aim higher.
- tim333 2y ago
  It seems quite often when Russia loses a war they then change their system. See Japan/WW1 and the communist takeover, Afghanistan and the collapse of the USSR. Quite possibly if Russia loses in Ukraine as in gets sent home then something similar will happen. There's an odd situation where the US seems to be drip feeding aid to Ukraine so as to prevent it from winning as they are worried about the Putin government collapsing leading to chaos. Personally I'd rather like to see that government collapse. (good video on that https://youtu.be/CxZ402BMSs8 https://youtu.be/CxZ402BMSs8)

deleted 2y ago

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tgz 2y ago

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jdmark 2y ago

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dang 2y ago
Users flagged it. We can only guess why users flag things, but here's what I can tell you: (1) it was an unusually large number of flags; (2) the average account age of the flaggers is more than 8 years, and most are active contributors on a wide range of topics; and (3) I looked through all their flagging histories and found only one whose flags were consistently political and one-sided. That is not the case with any of the others, and nearly all seem to be using flagging as intended. In the past it has been helpful to mention a list of "users who flagged X also flagged the following", so in that spirit, I've included a list below. The point here is not that all those other flags were good (a few were in fact bad), it's that the accounts are flagging a wide variety of stories and not in a predictable way. --- In what format is Euro2024 broadcast in your country? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837829 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837829 Dev rejects CVE severity, makes his GitHub repo read-only - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837791 Goldman Sachs says the return on investment for AI might be disappointing - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40837081 Farewell MongoDB: why you only need PostgreSQL - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40836988 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40836988 Analisis Tingkat Kemenangan Pada Berbagai Jenis Permainan Slot Di Mahongbet - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40835300 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40835300 DeSantis' Ban on Cultivated Meat: Food Freedom Battered in the State of Florida - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40834342 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40834342 Welcome to the Scene [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40833179 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40833179 That job you applied for might not exist - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828708 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828708 Anyone likes mechanical keyboard sounds? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828566 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40828566 Oklahoma orders schools to teach Bible 'immediately' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352 Italian Revenue Agency demands 1B from Google for tax evasion - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40812608 The rarest book in American literature: Poe's Tamerlane - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40795556 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40795556 Why is Microsofts chat widget over 6MB of JavaScript code? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40785986 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40785986 Why do we still teach people to calculate? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771627 How to do the jhanas - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771514 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40771514 OpenAI's GPT-5 Pushed Back to Late 2025, but Promises PhD-Level Abilities - https://news.ycombinator.com/item https://news.ycombinator.com/item? id=40759361 I Will Fucking Piledrive You If You Mention AI Again - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40734228 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40734228 The number of CS grads who don't even know basic Git commands is astounding - https://news.ycombinator.com/item https://news.ycombinator.com/item? id=40689779 Nitrogen dioxide exposure due to gas and propane combustion by U.S. stoves - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40407472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40407472 Git commit messages are useless - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39135304 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39135304 Asian Boss planted deep blue YouTuber and pretended he was a 'man on the street' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29888933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29888933

jacques-noris 2y ago

Is this a serious source?

henry_flower 2y ago
it is