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Bitcoin windfall for Mt. Gox creditors after 10 year wait
- darthrupert 2y agoA few thibgs to say for MtGox and its founder: they were a frontline casualty in crypto exchanges, demonstrating irrefutably how important security is. Not everyone got the memo, but many did. Also, they have been pretty good at accepting blame and trying to fix what they could.
- jane441 2y ago[dead]
- elintknower 2y agoIs there any way to identify if I'm a creditor with the email I registered with years ago?
- toomuchtodo 2y agohttps://claims.mtgox.com/faq https://claims.mtgox.com/faq
- Lambdanaut 2y agoIt is far far too late to get paid. Several deadlines have passed.
- timvdalen 2y agoI received some letters in Japanese 10 years ago saying I was part of it, but I haven't really heard anything since
- kiririn 2y agohttps://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/94dkfi/how_to_find_mtgox_balance/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/94dkfi/how... You're out of luck if you haven't archived a registration or password reset email Also probably out of luck regardless due to deadlines
- yieldcrv 2y agoits amazing that the American system is resolving FTX almost within 2 years, in comparison to the Japanese system says a lot about the two economies and their entire ethos
- k4rli 2y agoMeaningless comparison, crypto has grown a lot since 2013
- yieldcrv 2y agoThe Japanese system hasn’t and Mt Gox’s bankruptcy trustee issues have almost nothing to do with the presence of crypto and more to do with the presence of grifters taking advantage of the idea that something to do with crypto makes it administratively complicated when it really makes it simpler
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoIt should be noted that the American system also does not give FTX creditors this kind of windfall - under US bankruptcy law, their claims were effectively converted to dollars at the time of the bankruptcy, and they see no benefit from increased crypto prices since then. I'd assume this simplifies administration a lot, contributing to a faster resolution, but many FTX creditors are unhappy about it: https://www.wired.com/story/ftx-creditors-crypto-payout-rejection/ https://www.wired.com/story/ftx-creditors-crypto-payout-reje...
- wmf 2y agoIt's weird that people who had dollars on FTX can get 118% back but crypto "has to" take a massive haircut.
- FireBeyond 2y agoGenerally, you're not entitled to potential losses as a bankruptcy creditor. Those creditors were welcome to sue the entity in bankruptcy for their potential losses, but that would involve demonstrating they'd have had the wherewithal to hold to the point of the gains they're claiming. I do think that FTX creditors should not have profited out of the bankruptcy proceedings, either.
- Lambdanaut 2y agoGranted, individuals will only receive ~15% of their original claim, the increase in value over time will make it worth it for many.
- panarky 2y agoPeople lose their shirts in crypto because they lose it, trade it, and sell too soon. The only proven way to make a killing in crypto is to be physically prevented from losing it, trading it, or selling it for ten years.
- 9front 2y agoThe fear of losing is greater than the desire to win! So people trade or sell before a ten years timeframe.
- brianwawok 2y agoThis only reads that way looking back over a raising value. Look at a stock that goes to 0 and call the people that sold early fearful of losing,
- Detrytus 2y agoWhen the stock/crypto goes up 100% people will gladly take their profits and go on with their lives, instead of waiting for even bigger profits. When the stocks starts its fall towards 0 people will do incredible mental gymnastics, clinging to any shred of hope that things will turn around and they will revert their losses, so it takes them much more time to get out of the bad investment.
- ta988 2y agoAnd when crypto goes to 0?
- 2y ago
- pessimizer 2y agoSounds like a big crash is coming as people dump that stuff.
- guywithahat 2y agoThis isn’t the first time it happened. When MtGox went insolvent, the price of bitcoin tanked and they had enough cash on hand to replace everyone’s funds, but the lawyers said no because there wasn’t enough fees. This whole thing should have been resolved years ago, I still get bankruptcy emails and I feel bad for the poor soul who has to waste his whole career fighting over who gets the remaining sliver of money instead of doing something productive.
- throwup238 2y ago> I feel bad for the poor soul who has to waste his whole career fighting over who gets the remaining sliver of money instead of doing something productive. Returning money is the most productive thing a lawyer can do.
- otoburb 2y ago>>When MtGox went insolvent, the price of bitcoin tanked and they had enough cash on hand to replace everyone’s funds, but the lawyers said no because there wasn’t enough fees. Which lawyers are you referring to that said "no because there weren’t enough fees"? Seems contradictory because lawyers at the time in 2014 had no idea that the value of the remaining digital assets would rise.
- jrflowers 2y agoI’m going to guess it might’ve been lawyers that are presently happy to have been able to bill hours for this for the past decade
- otoburb 2y agoThere are two main sets of legal teams in bankruptcy cases: the estate, usually represented by the court appointed trustee's legal team, and individual or groups of creditors who can afford legal representation. The Trustee in this case wanted to sell everything and be done with the case, handling it as a standard fiat bankruptcy. I believe that it was only due to creditors with enough sway (i.e. whales who could afford their own legal teams) that pressured the Trustee to value the assets accordingly. To your point, the consequence of the successful persuasion has resulted in a high number of billable professional services hours from all sides which has definitely been a drain on the estate and creditor wallets. However, anybody (else) implying that it was the [nebulous] "lawyers" who orchestrated an evil scheme to perpetuate their billable hours from the get-go is being disingenuous and/or lazily finger pointing, unless of course they have some evidence or sources to back their assertion up.
- pmarreck 2y agoNotoriously, the site developer wrote his own crypto code... in PHP... which you should never do, regardless, but especially in PHP (I recall some numerical limitation having to do with bit rotation and automatically-signed numbers at the time)
- meowface 2y agoI hate PHP, but this is not a good comment.
- FactKnower69 2y agoDo you have any professional experience using PHP? I have never in my life used another web development platform that requires me to install 3rd party patches like Suhosin to get to a baseline level of security
- pmarreck 2y agoI didn't know about Suhosin but this is completely unsurprising to me. It's too bad my original comment got slammed because PHP deserves the slamming IMHO
- meowface 2y agoI completely agree PHP is a terrible language - as I said, I hate it - but your comment was still not very relevant.
- tinco 2y agoRight, but he didn't get hacked because of that, he got hacked because he's the sort of person who would make such a choice. He is just a bad developer and a bad person to have run a bank or anything significant really.
- maipen 2y ago9 billion dollares worth of BTC. It's honestly not that impactful as people may think. Note that BTC's last 24h volume was $15Billion (some of it is fake, but it's still alot) The price reaction to this news proves it.
- Detrytus 2y agoThis suggests that >90% of BTC trading volume is fake: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1544612321000635#:~:text=The%20Bitwise%20Management%20report%20suggests,non%2Dregulated%20exchanges%20is%20fake https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S15446.... But the study is from 2021, maybe introduction of Bitcoin ETFs made things better.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- o_____________o 2y agoI wonder if Bitforex, which was either taken offline as an exit scam or government intervention, is going to follow a similar path
- dragoncrab 2y agoThe background of the multiple hacks that led to the demise of Mt. Gox got a nice coverage on Darknet Diaries in 2017: https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/9/ https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/9/
- m3kw9 2y agoAbout the only way to hold bitcoin without selling is forced to
- qingcharles 2y agoIlya's little $5Bn stash is also going to cause issues now his case is over and I assume it is all forfeited by the US govt: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Bitfinex_hack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Bitfinex_hack
- t0mas88 2y agoWouldn't that be returned to the place it was stolen from?
- qingcharles 2y agoWell, the issue is that the bank covered everyone's losses at the time, from what I understand, but now all the account holders are asking for a share of this new booty that has been recovered.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Dwedit 2y agoMt. Gox is short for "Magic The Gathering Online Exchange", and the site's focus was on virtual trading of cards for Magic Online rather than cryptocurrency.
- Ancapistani 2y agoNo. That was the original intent for the domain, but to my knowledge it was never launched.
- ohmyiv 2y agoYes. According to the creator, it did. It just wasn't that popular and he switched to a different game, The Far Wilds, for a bit, then pivoted to bitcoin (with entirely different code). The interview was in 2014 and edited with proof on wikipedia, so I'm surprised people still believe it wasn't a trading card site. https://web.archive.org/web/20220811085644/https://www.gwern.net/docs/bitcoin/2014-mccaleb https://web.archive.org/web/20220811085644/https://www.gwern...
- grondilu 2y agoThey took 20 bitcoins out of me, but I never bothered to fill the paperwork. Oh, well.
- teractiveodular 2y agoPayouts still have not actually started. It is long been theorized that BTC prices will crash when they do, since the market will be flooded with people trying to finally realize their USD gains.