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What was wrong with Express.js? No, what is wrong with it right now? Because all I see is Next.js just being a wrapper for what Express.js does. Also, Next.js

What was wrong with Express.js? No, what is wrong with it right now? Because all I see is Next.js just being a wrapper for what Express.js does. Also, Next.js is becoming like Angular: The progress from Angular.js 1 to Angular 18 was necessary for solving the problem of very hard front-end web development. So I'm guessing this Next.js contender is trying to become the Angular of the back-end. They're basically turning into the theoretical computer science constructs that they must become. Script kiddies and non-computer science students need not apply.

jstummbillig 2y ago
Something something Dropbox
- makerdiety 2y ago
  That Dropbox thing is just a meme which I don't understand. I'm not "in" on the joke, if you will. I don't see how the Dropbox meme is relevant here.
  - jstummbillig 2y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 A part of HN history, if you will, making light fun of the "it's just a wrapper" idea that transitions into a multi billion dollar company, because only naively is execution and the integration of different ideas a trivial task. The people at NextJS are obviously(?) doing something that's not just Express and you can look at the version history if you are interested in identifying those things. Of course, you might not think of them as important. But that's a very different take.
NayamAmarshe 2y ago
> What was wrong with Express.js? Setting it up was a hassle and so was hosting it. It's a great tool, don't get me wrong but after using Next.js, I never needed it. There's also Hono (https://hono.dev https://hono.dev) now, which is like Express.js but better.
- makerdiety 2y ago
  You know what, I thought Next.js was a backend framework. I must be thinking of something else. I mistakenly have confused one thing with another. So never mind lol
  - moogly 2y ago
    You might be thinking of Nest.js.
- thr0w 2y ago
  > Setting it up was a hassle and so was hosting it. How is it possible that there are people active in this industry who think setting up Express is a hassle?
  - 52-6F-62 2y ago
    They got promoted to senior+ and run the show. “Greybeards go home, the future is now”?
- wruza 2y ago
  How does one set up express and host a web server correctly? >hono Seems absolutely the same to me, their getting started shows no login mw (only already token-ed auth), and it’s just a single context param instead of (req, res, next, res.{text,json}). What’s so innovative there? Feels like yet another cute solution looking for a problem.
9dev 2y ago
Building a product on Express is like making a sandwich by growing wheat and raising cattle. Sure Next is a wrapper around Express; JavaScript is a wrapper around assembly. Yet some people don’t have time to do everything from scratch again and just want a sensible framework to build upon.
- makerdiety 2y ago
  Due to economies of scale, the massive manufacturing of your theoretical sandwiches with your own wheat and cattle agriculture should be cheaper in the end on a large scale (compared to the present alternative). And at that large scale it is the only effective and practical choice. So, we can infer the general conclusion that there are multiple and different types of software development with the existence of things like Express.js and Next.js. Namely real developers and lowly developers like cows on a factory line.
- williamcotton 2y ago
  Express is like making a sandwich by buying bread, meat, and condiments from the super market. NextJS is like buying a sandwich from a vending machine. The biggest issue with apps like NextJS is that they didn't explicitly build upon and expose the Express API. What they should have done is client-side app routing with a version of Express that runs route handlers in the browser. They also needed to add parallel middleware that runs in both a browser and server context. That's the only sane way to support functionality and components that run in both the server and browser context. The entire NextJS architecture is flawed because they picked the wrong pivot point. We want to be making sandwiches from store-bought components. Sometimes we do need to swap out the bread and NextJS has the wrong abstractions to do so which results in all sorts of soon-to-be-breaking-changes-spaghetti to work-around the deficiencies. It would have been much better to maintain an application by working directly with requests, request middleware and request route handlers, with a mock request corresponding to mouse events for the client-side. The request-response cycle is the fundamental nature of the web application, even in the browser.
- wruza 2y ago
  This comparison is unreasonably disproportional.

jstummbillig 2y ago

Something something Dropbox

makerdiety 2y ago
That Dropbox thing is just a meme which I don't understand. I'm not "in" on the joke, if you will. I don't see how the Dropbox meme is relevant here.
- jstummbillig 2y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224 A part of HN history, if you will, making light fun of the "it's just a wrapper" idea that transitions into a multi billion dollar company, because only naively is execution and the integration of different ideas a trivial task. The people at NextJS are obviously(?) doing something that's not just Express and you can look at the version history if you are interested in identifying those things. Of course, you might not think of them as important. But that's a very different take.

NayamAmarshe 2y ago

> What was wrong with Express.js? Setting it up was a hassle and so was hosting it. It's a great tool, don't get me wrong but after using Next.js, I never needed it. There's also Hono (https://hono.dev https://hono.dev) now, which is like Express.js but better.

makerdiety 2y ago
You know what, I thought Next.js was a backend framework. I must be thinking of something else. I mistakenly have confused one thing with another. So never mind lol
- moogly 2y ago
  You might be thinking of Nest.js.
thr0w 2y ago
> Setting it up was a hassle and so was hosting it. How is it possible that there are people active in this industry who think setting up Express is a hassle?
- 52-6F-62 2y ago
  They got promoted to senior+ and run the show. “Greybeards go home, the future is now”?
wruza 2y ago
How does one set up express and host a web server correctly? >hono Seems absolutely the same to me, their getting started shows no login mw (only already token-ed auth), and it’s just a single context param instead of (req, res, next, res.{text,json}). What’s so innovative there? Feels like yet another cute solution looking for a problem.

9dev 2y ago

Building a product on Express is like making a sandwich by growing wheat and raising cattle. Sure Next is a wrapper around Express; JavaScript is a wrapper around assembly. Yet some people don’t have time to do everything from scratch again and just want a sensible framework to build upon.

makerdiety 2y ago
Due to economies of scale, the massive manufacturing of your theoretical sandwiches with your own wheat and cattle agriculture should be cheaper in the end on a large scale (compared to the present alternative). And at that large scale it is the only effective and practical choice. So, we can infer the general conclusion that there are multiple and different types of software development with the existence of things like Express.js and Next.js. Namely real developers and lowly developers like cows on a factory line.
williamcotton 2y ago
Express is like making a sandwich by buying bread, meat, and condiments from the super market. NextJS is like buying a sandwich from a vending machine. The biggest issue with apps like NextJS is that they didn't explicitly build upon and expose the Express API. What they should have done is client-side app routing with a version of Express that runs route handlers in the browser. They also needed to add parallel middleware that runs in both a browser and server context. That's the only sane way to support functionality and components that run in both the server and browser context. The entire NextJS architecture is flawed because they picked the wrong pivot point. We want to be making sandwiches from store-bought components. Sometimes we do need to swap out the bread and NextJS has the wrong abstractions to do so which results in all sorts of soon-to-be-breaking-changes-spaghetti to work-around the deficiencies. It would have been much better to maintain an application by working directly with requests, request middleware and request route handlers, with a mock request corresponding to mouse events for the client-side. The request-response cycle is the fundamental nature of the web application, even in the browser.
wruza 2y ago
This comparison is unreasonably disproportional.