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How to waste bandwidth, battery power, and annoy sysadmins
- ggm 2y agoI have to laugh when the robots fetch the .ico file
- dspillett 2y agoI'm sure some do that deliberately, to remove one way to identify bots automatically and block them or give them bad content.
- perfect_wave 2y agoI use Firefox for iPhone. Sorry At least if probably wastes less energy than messing around with generative AI
- userbinator 2y agoIt's not part of individual directories. That would be stupid. Having a path-specific favicon actually sounds like a feature.
- chime 2y agoLong ago, I implemented that by pragma no-cache and checking the referrer. It wasn’t perfect but it worked for most users.
- missblit 2y agoAnd it is a feature. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Attributes/rel#icon https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Attributes...
- Aachen 2y agoI use this daily to tell different projects on my website apart by icon, both in browser tabs and in bookmarks
- vasco 2y agoThat's the point the author made.
- Kwpolska 2y agoIt is quite easy these days if you define <meta> tags to specify the icon (as opposed to depending on files being in the right places).
- justsomehnguy 2y ago> Having a path-specific favicon actually sounds like a feature. Can you provide at least a couple of use-cases for a path specific favicons?
- userbinator 2y agoSites where users each get a directory for their profile.
- justsomehnguy 2y agoThese can be solved by <meta favicon=./user_favicon.ico> or something. Do this require a browser probing every path with /favicon.ico?
- 6510 2y agoNot every file displayed in a browser is a html document.
- Symbiote 2y agoThen put the location in an HTTP Link header.
- justsomehnguy 2y agoAh, yes, how could I forgot what https://contoso.tld/users/6510/grocerylist.jpg https://contoso.tld/users/6510/grocerylist.jpg is the file what is very prominently displayed in a browser of the every contoso.tld visitor, so it definitely demands for the browser to query https://contoso.tld/users/6510/grocerylist.jpg/favicon.ico https://contoso.tld/users/6510/grocerylist.jpg/favicon.ico just in case user 6510 would want to display a custom favicon when someone is watching that grocerylist.jpg, right? I understand what you tried to retort just to retort, but I've had asked for the actual use-cases, not the mock ones and purely hypothetical.
- 2y ago
- jb1991 2y agoInteresting. From a user experience, Firefox for iPhone has been a really excellent app, it’s been my preferred browser for years.
- rrr_oh_man 2y agoEven if it’s basically a skin for Safari?
- fmbb 2y agoIs it? I thought it was basically Firefox with another HTML rendering engine (and I guess javascript runtime).
- immibis 2y agoThose are the main parts of the browser.
- swiftcoder 2y agoThey are large parts of the browser, certainly. But they don't encompass all the fun network, fetch, and caching behaviour entailed in this issue.
- fastily 2y agoNot for long. Apple just started allowing 3rd party browser engines in the EU https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/25/24050478/apple-ios-17-4-browser-engines-eu https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/25/24050478/apple-ios-17-4-b...
- dspillett 2y agoOnly in the EU because of that ruling. IIRC they are not implementing the requirement elsewhere (though they might eventually if the difference gets sufficient bad press or becomes technically inconvenient).
- 2y ago
- hulitu 2y ago> First up, why in the hell do you need to request the same link 12 times? No, scratch that, 15 times, since it does 3 more after getting the css and feed icon. It makes a debouncing. It compares the result with the previous to be sure it is OK. /s
- seism 2y agoIt's an open source project, with a good discussion of the technical issues on GitHub[1]. Probably linked to certain user behaviors, like having hundreds of tabs open, but surely also contingent on the complexity of wedging a browser in iOS. Like maneuvering an excavator into a sandbox. [1] https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-ios/issues/12113 https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-ios/issues/12113
- seism 2y agoAlso, when I saw the headline, I had to think of all the LLM scrapers and bots (soon to be running directly on your AIphone!) roaming the Interwebs.
- quaintdev 2y agoJust yesterday I blocked the bots from my blog using this[1]. Of course whether these bots respect robots.txt nowadays is a different question altogether [1]: https://github.com/fardog/fardog.io/commit/b2e3eac838ea25209f2da712a68c14d01c3a1647 https://github.com/fardog/fardog.io/commit/b2e3eac838ea25209...
- fartfeatures 2y agoThey do not: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40759916 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40759916
- AtlasBarfed 2y agoI thought all browsers on iOS were using the apple browser engine and ditto for Android. That is, they are just skins
- JimDabell 2y agoThey are using the WebKit rendering engine, but there’s a lot more to a web browser than just its rendering engine. They aren’t just skins.
- markerz 2y agoOh hey, I wrote that last issue linked! What crazy Deja vu. Here’s me discovering the issue that led me to find some wild behavior. Basically Firefox loaded favicons 4x the number of tabs opened to that website. It would do this every time I opened or closed any tab. https://aggressivelyparaphrasing.me/2022/12/12/why-does-my-low-traffic-wordpress-blog-http-503-service-unavailable-when-i-click-around-using-firefox-on-iphone/ https://aggressivelyparaphrasing.me/2022/12/12/why-does-my-l... It was resolved a while back so maybe it’s similar symptoms but different root cause, or maybe it’s people using older versions?
- aaron695 2y ago[dead]
- gwd 2y agoWordpress handles 404s really slowly? I'm kind of surprised it works at all then, as at least in my logs there's a very steady stream of bots probing it for vulnerabilities by trying random URLs.
- swiftcoder 2y agoIt may intentionally 404 slowly? One web service I worked on added a few hundred milliseconds delay in returning 404s to slow down this kind of probing attack
- gwd 2y agoOoh, that's a good idea actually. But it doesn't explain this: > If I click enough, I’d eventually see HTTP 503 Service Unavailable. That normally only happens when the reverse proxy has a timeout, which would normally only happen when the backend was completely overloaded. Unless WP has an exponential delay, and the 503 is just the exponential delay becoming longer than the reverse proxy timeout? But why would the main page that the guy is loading say 503, when random non-critical parts like favicon.ico get a 503? Unless the exponential delay is per IP address -- so all the misses to favicon.ico are actually slowing down the main connections past the reverse proxy timeout? EDIT: Actually, no, they have graphs of the server actually spiking memory and CPU usage; you'd expect intentional exponential delay to reduce memory and CPU usage.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- globular-toast 2y agoThis isn't a very constructive post. Are we supposed to believe this is the only inefficient and buggy software out there? Seems weird to call out a particular project like that.
- EdwardDiego 2y ago[flagged]
- swiftcoder 2y agoThis isn't a very constructive comment. Are we supposed to believe that one can never criticise any piece of software, ever, on the off-chance that some other piece of software, somewhere, once contained a similar issue?
- pjmlp 2y agoI for one, have no patience for Feel Good culture.
- r3db34rd 2y ago[dead]
- alexchamberlain 2y agoThere are some suggestions on https://stackoverflow.com/q/1321878/961353 https://stackoverflow.com/q/1321878/961353 for disabling the favicon request completely.
- mock-possum 2y agoTitle implies that this article thirdly explains how to waste annoying sysadmins, which is an entertaining prospect. Are we talking about not putting annoying sysadmins to good use? Or are we talking about, you know, makin sure they don’t cause nobody no trouble again, boss?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- justsomehnguy 2y agoMakes me wonder what it would do if you throw a couple of 301/307/308 at it.
- bennettlp 2y agoI remember something similar with Internet Explorer back in the day, where it would ask for the favicon (which we didn’t have setup at the time) so our 404 page would be returned, which then seemed to trigger another request for a favicon. (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
- CarRamrod 2y ago[flagged]
- EdwardDiego 2y agoAre you commenting on the right post mate?
- codetrotter 2y agoIt’s extra funny because just a few days ago he wrote a comment that was a link to an image hosted on Reddit. Of course he could’ve just gotten the link from Google Images and not noticed. But I would rather like to imagine that he himself is one of the “Redditors” he apparently so vehemently despises.
- fnord123 2y agoNow let's see the savings from not talking to ad servers and running the Javascript from those trackers.
- Aardwolf 2y agoI thought firefox on ios was just safari with a reskin because apple doesn't allow other browser engines on their phone? Firefox on android is amazing with its plugin support, though I still prefer their pre-2021 UI
- smolder 2y agoFirefox on Android is NOT amazing. For MANY YEARS the user agent included the exact model of your phone. They seem to be incompetent. (Edit: this is a bit harsh, and to clarify, directed at the company and not any specific people in their employ.) Exactly what Google wants -- plausible deniability when it comes to monopoly, but an awful alternative.
- phartenfeller 2y agoNope, for me it includes the Android version but no device model information.
- smolder 2y agoThey fixed it after the issue was present for MANY YEARS, exactly as stated.
- Aachen 2y agoThe other day I found out my mobile user agent string also included the kernel build version. Way to see which, if any, exploit would be effective for the device's patch level. Thankfully it has a spoof option so I now use that to send a correct, but slightly stripped, UA string I keep thinking I should switch to Firefox but the current ux is just so comfortable
- cuu508 2y agoOK, so it was NOT amazing for MANY YEARS, but now it is ;-)
- bu7jjuj 2y ago
- shantara 2y agoI recall seeing some users complain about getting a temp ban on a niche forum when using Firefox for iOS, which was probably caused by this issue.
- instagib 2y agoI occasionally get this from some sites. Sometimes switch to safari or reset Firefox fixes it. I use Firefox as a quick lookup because the tabs crash often and it hardly ever saves the websites I was on when re-opening. So far I have crashed safari and lost all my tabs once ever. Firefox focus does a pretty good job too for quick lookups.
- yokoprime 2y agoI get it, everything adds up and over millions of page-loads there will be a bit of wasted bandwidth. But it seems the original author blew this issue out of proportion with this post. Why even be annoyed by such a minor issue?
- globular-toast 2y agoThe author is a HN favourite. Literally any dogshit by them will get to the top of front page.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- jepler 2y agoThe author of this site usually takes pains to obfuscate whatever big commercial entity she's talking about who did dumb stuff. But when it's Firefox, she names names. Huh.
- Aloha 2y agoNo - as someone who reads her on feed - not particularly, and only in certain cases.
- batch12 2y agoThe post would be pointless if it didn't identify the browser in question.
- yuliyp 2y agoThe author obfuscates her employers. Stuff she discovers as an end user will get named.
- daveoc64 2y agoHer recent series on RSS feed readers has avoided naming virtually any of them. I can't imagine she is working for them all.
- lopkeny12ko 2y ago> And yet, this thing decides to beat the shit out of the web server while trying to get it. This is an exhorbitant exaggeration. They are duplicated requests for a favicon. Not only is that a tiny resource, most of these requests are 404ing which is cheap. And even if it isn't 404, your favicon is a tiny static asset, it should either be served by CDN or in the server's filesystem cache anyways.
- johnp_ 2y agoHere's the code, for those interested in finding the bug: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-ios/tree/main/BrowserKit/Sources/SiteImageView/FaviconURLProcessing https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/firefox-ios/tree/main/Brow...