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> Google's code, tooling and accompanying practices are developing a reputation for being largely useless outside Google ... Not that I don’t believe you, but

> Google's code, tooling and accompanying practices are developing a reputation for being largely useless outside Google ... Not that I don’t believe you, but where do you see this?

matthewfcarlson 2y ago
I haven't worked at google, but this is something I have heard from a few people. Reputation is largely word of mouth, so it checks out for me. I suspect the skills/tools at most large companies are increasingly less transferrable as they continue to grow in scale and scope.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
robertakarobin 2y ago
I can vouch for it. It's the main reason I quit: none of the "hard" skills necessary to code at Google were transferrable anywhere outside of Google. It would have been easy enough to skate and use "soft" skills to move up the management ladder and cash big checks, but I wasn't interested in that. The reason it's not transferrable is that Google has its own version of EVERYTHING: version control, an IDE, build tools, JavaScript libraries, templating libraries, etc, etc. The only thing I can think of that we used that wasn't invented at Google was SCSS, and that was a very recent addition. Google didn't even use its own open-source libraries like Angular. None of the technologies were remotely usable outside Google. It might sound cool to use only in-house stuff, and I understand the arguments about licensing. But it meant that everything was poorly-documented, had bugs and missing features that lingered for years, and it was impossible to find a SME because whoever initially built a technology had moved on to other things and left a mess behind them. Some people may be able to deal with the excruciating slowness and scattered-ness, and may be OK with working on a teeny slice of the pie in the expectation that years later they'll get to own a bigger slice. But that ain't me so I noped out as soon as my shares vested.
- Banditoz 2y ago
  Their own IDE? Is it web based? So they don't use, say, IntelliJ/Eclipse for Java projects?
  - robertakarobin 2y ago
    It's basically a fork of VSCode.
    - makeramen 2y ago
      That’s a recent development, used to be something else altogether.
- audiodude 2y ago
  12 year current Googler here. You are absolutely correct about "Google has its own version of EVERYTHING". Midway through my current career, I started to get existential dread about the fact that I wasn't "up to date" on any current development practices or frameworks. Partly, this was assuaged through participating in open source projects in my free time. That's how I learned Docker, Github workflow, React, Vue, Bootstrap, Tailwind, etc. But at the same time, I think it is a mistake to consider working with tools/languages/frameworks to be the only "hard" skills. Galaxy brain is realizing that anyone can learn a language/framework/workflow in a month or so. The real work is applying sound principles to the design and production of meaningful artifacts within those systems.
- kaba0 2y ago
  Though credit where it’s due, some of their tools really have been years ahead of anything outside of google, e.g. the closure compiler that made javascript development scalable.
openmajestic 2y ago
I have seen this discussed in hiring decisions. I don't know that it played a large factor in a decision, but lack of experience in the standard tools/practices/terms of software development because of a career at Google was definitely a discussion point.
makeramen 2y ago
I had a bunch of very tenured teammates that didn’t really know how to use git, so there were only a few of us comfortable enough integrating and interacting with an open source dependency repo.

> Google's code, tooling and accompanying practices are developing a reputation for being largely useless outside Google ... Not that I don’t believe you, but where do you see this?

matthewfcarlson 2y ago

I haven't worked at google, but this is something I have heard from a few people. Reputation is largely word of mouth, so it checks out for me. I suspect the skills/tools at most large companies are increasingly less transferrable as they continue to grow in scale and scope.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

robertakarobin 2y ago

I can vouch for it. It's the main reason I quit: none of the "hard" skills necessary to code at Google were transferrable anywhere outside of Google. It would have been easy enough to skate and use "soft" skills to move up the management ladder and cash big checks, but I wasn't interested in that. The reason it's not transferrable is that Google has its own version of EVERYTHING: version control, an IDE, build tools, JavaScript libraries, templating libraries, etc, etc. The only thing I can think of that we used that wasn't invented at Google was SCSS, and that was a very recent addition. Google didn't even use its own open-source libraries like Angular. None of the technologies were remotely usable outside Google. It might sound cool to use only in-house stuff, and I understand the arguments about licensing. But it meant that everything was poorly-documented, had bugs and missing features that lingered for years, and it was impossible to find a SME because whoever initially built a technology had moved on to other things and left a mess behind them. Some people may be able to deal with the excruciating slowness and scattered-ness, and may be OK with working on a teeny slice of the pie in the expectation that years later they'll get to own a bigger slice. But that ain't me so I noped out as soon as my shares vested.

Banditoz 2y ago
Their own IDE? Is it web based? So they don't use, say, IntelliJ/Eclipse for Java projects?
- robertakarobin 2y ago
  It's basically a fork of VSCode.
  - makeramen 2y ago
    That’s a recent development, used to be something else altogether.
audiodude 2y ago
12 year current Googler here. You are absolutely correct about "Google has its own version of EVERYTHING". Midway through my current career, I started to get existential dread about the fact that I wasn't "up to date" on any current development practices or frameworks. Partly, this was assuaged through participating in open source projects in my free time. That's how I learned Docker, Github workflow, React, Vue, Bootstrap, Tailwind, etc. But at the same time, I think it is a mistake to consider working with tools/languages/frameworks to be the only "hard" skills. Galaxy brain is realizing that anyone can learn a language/framework/workflow in a month or so. The real work is applying sound principles to the design and production of meaningful artifacts within those systems.
kaba0 2y ago
Though credit where it’s due, some of their tools really have been years ahead of anything outside of google, e.g. the closure compiler that made javascript development scalable.

openmajestic 2y ago

I have seen this discussed in hiring decisions. I don't know that it played a large factor in a decision, but lack of experience in the standard tools/practices/terms of software development because of a career at Google was definitely a discussion point.

makeramen 2y ago

I had a bunch of very tenured teammates that didn’t really know how to use git, so there were only a few of us comfortable enough integrating and interacting with an open source dependency repo.