4 ms·

Certainly no detectable trend in that data. But the accident frequency is so low that the random variation dominates and makes it impossible to distinguish any

Certainly no detectable trend in that data. But the accident frequency is so low that the random variation dominates and makes it impossible to distinguish any trend. What is demonstrably increasing is CAT, due to climate change. But considering how infrequent these incidents are we might not see a clear increase for several decades.

vlovich123 2y ago
Do we really not record turbulence sensor data off the airplanes and download it when they’re on the ground? I’m also surprised that these airplanes have on demand satellite TV streaming to these airplanes but airlines claim that it costs 100k to add that to existing planes. There’s just no way it’s 100k per plane - there must be a cheap way to retrofit the data without having it be reliable since it’s opportunistic. And heck, France is doing it every 4 minutes for their planes so why can’t Americans figure out how to do it.
- TylerE 2y ago
  If satelite TV is down, some passengers are mildly annoyed. If a regulatory required part of the aircraft is non-functional, you're not going flying today.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    You’re saying it’s impossible to have an optionally required feature? If the satellite TV is down some sensor data isn’t sent. Why would that be cause for grounding the plane? You could easily make the regulation an SLA like all routes flown must be sending data for 90% of the flights on that route for the month and failures to meet the SLA are investigated. Also I’ve flown a bunch and I’ve rarely seen the Internet link go out except where there’s technical limitations like crossing the ocean where they can’t maintain an internet and have to rely on preprogrammed content. Given how much money they make from cabin internet, the airlines are clearly incentivized to apply pressure to keep those things running. I doubt I’ve seen anyone be really annoyed when there’s technical difficulties. Most people who fall into that category would have made other arrangements for entertainment anyway.
- MadnessASAP 2y ago
  > Do we really not record turbulence sensor data off the airplanes and download it when they’re on the ground? No, accelerometer data is only recorded to the FDR. Which has a limited storage window (1-24 hours depending on the aircraft) and is slow to download requiring moderately specialized equipment and a technician to carry out the task. Aircraft downtime and technician hours are both expensive and in short supply. > I’m also surprised that these airplanes have on demand satellite TV streaming to these airplanes but airlines claim that it costs 100k to add that to existing planes. There’s just no way it’s 100k per plane - there must be a cheap way to retrofit the data without having it be reliable since it’s opportunistic. And heck, France is doing it every 4 minutes for their planes so why can’t Americans figure out how to do it. Everything on airplanes is expensive. Even cabin amenities. You have to prove it won't start a fire, was installed correctly, won't interfere with other equipment, won't interfere with the aircrafts structure, and again requires technician hours and aircraft downtime.
  - dheera 2y ago
    > No, accelerometer data is only recorded to the FDR. Which has a limited storage window Apple and Google could fix this my streaming accelerometer data to the ground when people are connected to in-flight wifi. It is fairly easy to identify which phones out of a set are the stationary ones.
  - throwaway-blaze 2y ago
    Well, you have to have paperwork claiming it was installed correctly. You don't _have_ to install it correctly. See e.g. doors installed so correctly that they blow out in flight etc.
    - lucianbr 2y ago
      What's the point of your comment? Should we just install a bunch of accelerometers on planes with faked paperwork because some people faked some paperwork somtime? Sounds like you're upset at Boeing and figured you would tell us you're upset on an unrelated thread. Note that it doesn't really matter if you are right to be upset at Boeing or not. It's still unrelated.
- supportengineer 2y ago
  Almost every single passenger is carrying an accelerometer with them. We just have to use that data.
- lxgr 2y ago
  Not sure if this data includes accelerometer reports, but airplanes actually play an important role in collecting data used for weather forecast models: https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/covid-19-impacts-observing-system https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/covid-19-impacts-observing... Edit: Turns out this already includes turbulence data, and this is streamed real-time! https://community.wmo.int/en/activity-areas/aircraft-based-observations/amdar/about-amdar https://community.wmo.int/en/activity-areas/aircraft-based-o... > France is doing it every 4 minutes for their planes What are they doing exactly? Are you referring to the article?
- benhurmarcel 2y ago
  Some aircraft are equipped with a system that records parameters in flight, and sends it via 4G when on the ground. This is used for preventive maintenance mostly. It’s a service that’s more and more common. However that data belongs to each airline.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    Yeah I feel like the FAA should require the airlines to share some of the data so we get research into the jet stream that we can cross correlate with other data sources.
- kelnos 2y ago
  There's essentially no cheap way to add anything to an airplane. Most changes will require extensive testing, verification, and sometimes certification when it comes to planes. But anyway, where are you seeing a claim that it costs $100k to record and save turbulence sensor data? I don't see anyone upthread claiming that, and the article doesn't touch on it at all.
  - vlovich123 2y ago
    I read it in another article on the topic researching before commenting. Just didn’t bother to cite it but that was the official reason given as to why America doesn’t do this.

vlovich123 2y ago

Do we really not record turbulence sensor data off the airplanes and download it when they’re on the ground? I’m also surprised that these airplanes have on demand satellite TV streaming to these airplanes but airlines claim that it costs 100k to add that to existing planes. There’s just no way it’s 100k per plane - there must be a cheap way to retrofit the data without having it be reliable since it’s opportunistic. And heck, France is doing it every 4 minutes for their planes so why can’t Americans figure out how to do it.

TylerE 2y ago
If satelite TV is down, some passengers are mildly annoyed. If a regulatory required part of the aircraft is non-functional, you're not going flying today.
- vlovich123 2y ago
  You’re saying it’s impossible to have an optionally required feature? If the satellite TV is down some sensor data isn’t sent. Why would that be cause for grounding the plane? You could easily make the regulation an SLA like all routes flown must be sending data for 90% of the flights on that route for the month and failures to meet the SLA are investigated. Also I’ve flown a bunch and I’ve rarely seen the Internet link go out except where there’s technical limitations like crossing the ocean where they can’t maintain an internet and have to rely on preprogrammed content. Given how much money they make from cabin internet, the airlines are clearly incentivized to apply pressure to keep those things running. I doubt I’ve seen anyone be really annoyed when there’s technical difficulties. Most people who fall into that category would have made other arrangements for entertainment anyway.
MadnessASAP 2y ago
> Do we really not record turbulence sensor data off the airplanes and download it when they’re on the ground? No, accelerometer data is only recorded to the FDR. Which has a limited storage window (1-24 hours depending on the aircraft) and is slow to download requiring moderately specialized equipment and a technician to carry out the task. Aircraft downtime and technician hours are both expensive and in short supply. > I’m also surprised that these airplanes have on demand satellite TV streaming to these airplanes but airlines claim that it costs 100k to add that to existing planes. There’s just no way it’s 100k per plane - there must be a cheap way to retrofit the data without having it be reliable since it’s opportunistic. And heck, France is doing it every 4 minutes for their planes so why can’t Americans figure out how to do it. Everything on airplanes is expensive. Even cabin amenities. You have to prove it won't start a fire, was installed correctly, won't interfere with other equipment, won't interfere with the aircrafts structure, and again requires technician hours and aircraft downtime.
- dheera 2y ago
  > No, accelerometer data is only recorded to the FDR. Which has a limited storage window Apple and Google could fix this my streaming accelerometer data to the ground when people are connected to in-flight wifi. It is fairly easy to identify which phones out of a set are the stationary ones.
- throwaway-blaze 2y ago
  Well, you have to have paperwork claiming it was installed correctly. You don't _have_ to install it correctly. See e.g. doors installed so correctly that they blow out in flight etc.
  - lucianbr 2y ago
    What's the point of your comment? Should we just install a bunch of accelerometers on planes with faked paperwork because some people faked some paperwork somtime? Sounds like you're upset at Boeing and figured you would tell us you're upset on an unrelated thread. Note that it doesn't really matter if you are right to be upset at Boeing or not. It's still unrelated.
supportengineer 2y ago
Almost every single passenger is carrying an accelerometer with them. We just have to use that data.
lxgr 2y ago
Not sure if this data includes accelerometer reports, but airplanes actually play an important role in collecting data used for weather forecast models: https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/covid-19-impacts-observing-system https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/covid-19-impacts-observing... Edit: Turns out this already includes turbulence data, and this is streamed real-time! https://community.wmo.int/en/activity-areas/aircraft-based-observations/amdar/about-amdar https://community.wmo.int/en/activity-areas/aircraft-based-o... > France is doing it every 4 minutes for their planes What are they doing exactly? Are you referring to the article?
benhurmarcel 2y ago
Some aircraft are equipped with a system that records parameters in flight, and sends it via 4G when on the ground. This is used for preventive maintenance mostly. It’s a service that’s more and more common. However that data belongs to each airline.
- vlovich123 2y ago
  Yeah I feel like the FAA should require the airlines to share some of the data so we get research into the jet stream that we can cross correlate with other data sources.
kelnos 2y ago
There's essentially no cheap way to add anything to an airplane. Most changes will require extensive testing, verification, and sometimes certification when it comes to planes. But anyway, where are you seeing a claim that it costs $100k to record and save turbulence sensor data? I don't see anyone upthread claiming that, and the article doesn't touch on it at all.
- vlovich123 2y ago
  I read it in another article on the topic researching before commenting. Just didn’t bother to cite it but that was the official reason given as to why America doesn’t do this.