6 ms·

Oklahoma Superintendent Ryan Walters orders Bible taught in schools

26 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

yawpitch 2y ago
See this is a perfect example of why I had kindergarten-level English proficiency at 2 years old… I realized, around the moment the first tornado jumped our house, days after I’d been brought home from the maternity ward, that one way or another my survival depended on communicating to two obviously bewildered and clearly confused adults that we had to get the fuck out of Oklahoma.
reify 2y ago
Bigot! What if you are of a different faith? What if you are not god fearing? What if you do not want your children being taught about a 2000 years old fantasy book that was only written 400 years after the crucifiction. Imagine writing about todays events in 400 years time passed down just by word of mouth and a few pages of text. Notice too that the word crucifiction has Fiction in it. Fiction is any creative work, chiefly any narrative work, portraying individuals, events, or places that are imaginary or in ways that are imaginary. Fictional portrayals are thus inconsistent with history, fact, or plausibility.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  The word Crucifixion does not contain fiction and is actually historically well documented. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
  - IggleSniggle 2y ago
    The irony elevates the post, as if from the dead
ordu 2y ago
I wonder, is it a productive approach to the superintendent concerns? Anecdotal evidence with sample size = 1 (me) points that the more your force your ideologies to me, the more resistance you get from me. I'm still struggling to keep myself agnostic without falling into aggressive atheism exactly because a lot of religious people feel the need to convert me into Christianity. And it works through all my life, with not just religion but with national pride, patriotism, classic literature and really any thing that I do not care of but someone decided to change that forcefully. It is counterproductive with me, but I watch how people are still trying to do it. Does it work?
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > I wonder, is it a productive approach to the superintendent concerns It doesn't matter. Oklahoma's current governor Kevin Stitt is term limited and Ryan Walters is angling for either a gubinatoral run in 2026 [0][1][2] or Secretary of Education under a Republican president [1][3] Superintendent of Public Instruction in Oklahoma is a very powerful and high visibility position that can be leveraged into a Gubinatorial run, as Walter's predecessor Joy Hofmeister ran for Governor, and her predecessor Janet Barresi ran for Congress. [0] - https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/government/2023/08/25/ryan-walters-for-governor-oklahoma-website-not-real-officials-say/70678394007/ https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/government/202... [1] - https://www.the74million.org/article/the-mystery-of-ryan-walters-how-a-beloved-history-teacher-became-oklahomas-culture-warrior-in-chief/ https://www.the74million.org/article/the-mystery-of-ryan-wal... [2] - https://ryanwaltersforgovernor.com/ https://ryanwaltersforgovernor.com/ [3] - https://oklahomavoice.com/briefs/ryan-walters-endorses-donald-trump-plans-to-join-his-reelection-team/ https://oklahomavoice.com/briefs/ryan-walters-endorses-donal...
- yawpitch 2y ago
  Interesting thought experiment. Going down that route, I’m going to explicitly not promote the idea of hard atheism to you. Please report back before death if you’ve eventually abandoned agnosticism or not.
Veliladon 2y ago
What kind of Christianity? Nicene or Restorationist? Which denomination, Ryan? Adventism, Anabaptism, Anglicanism, Baptists, Lutheranism, Methodism, Moravianism, Quakerism, Pentecostalism, Plymouth Brethren, Reformed Christianity, Waldensianism? Which subbranch of which denomination? It's that fucking Simpsons quote, "Bart, we're here to bring you back to the one true faith, Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism". That's why the government doesn't sponsor religion. Because there'd be a fucking civil war between the sects of Christianity trying to get their creed as the state one and the persecuted ones wouldn't back down. Nevertheless, if I was forced to teach the kids the Bible I'd personally go straight for Nestorianism. Indoctrinate those kids and take that Nicene Creed down a peg.
- thesuperbigfrog 2y ago
  Comedian Emo Philips tells of walking across a bridge and seeing a man standing on the edge, ready to jump off. He ran over and said, “Stop! Don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. “Well, there’s so much to live for.” “Like what?” “Well, are you religious?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?” “Christian.” “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?” “Protestant.” “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?” “Baptist.” “Wow, me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?” “Baptist Church of God!” “Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God or Reformed Baptist Church of God?” “Reformed Baptist Church of God!” “Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?” His new friend replied, “Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915.” To which Philips replied, “Die, heretic!,” and he pushed him off. Source: https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/dr-james-emery-white/the-best-religious-joke-ever.html https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/dr-james-em...
  - jmpman 2y ago
    Emo Philips tours with Weird Al, and did this joke at the last Weird Al concert. Thrilled to hear it live.
- jollofricepeas 2y ago
impish9208 2y ago
Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816994
freen 2y ago
The cannibal zombie cult that uses a gruesome execution device as their symbol? No thanks.
- IggleSniggle 2y ago
  As long as you eat the transmogrified flesh, you get to be a zombie too, at some point (the last day), no matter your sins in life...well as long as you give all your wealth away first (preferably to the Church but if you give it in a way that brings more people that's okay too). The institution just gives you an opportunity to start the process during life as a gentle precursor to what comes after death.
- theandrewbailey 2y ago
  Not to mention, the word "christian" was originally meant as an insult. So offensive.
  - justinclift 2y ago
    It still kind of is?
- justinclift 2y ago
  Like that old wise crack: "Which part of my story gives you the impression I like crosses? So much that you use one as a symbol for me...?!?!?!"
camgunz 2y ago
Just like people who swear they love the constitution, people who swear they love the Bible usually have no idea what's in it. Like if you want to go full "New Covenant" you don't need the Bible for that; if you don't well welcome to observing the Sabbath and not mixing your cloths.
seatac76 2y ago
This violates the Establishment clause, will get tossed out if it goes to the Supreme Court. There is a reason religion should be kept away from the state. So stupid shit like this does not happen.
- emchammer 2y ago
  A survey of world religion, including the great texts, as an adjunct to social studies seems reasonable to me. It is a huge part of many people's lives. I am Jewish, and I have looked inside the New Testament, the Quran, and the Book of Mormon. Perhaps if approached hermeneutically, like my own religion may be descended from a Yahwistic cult developed through monolatry, or maybe God transmitted the Torah letter for letter via teletype b'har Sinai, but I still keep it next to my bed.
  - krapp 2y ago
    >A survey of world religion, including the great texts, as an adjunct to social studies seems reasonable to me. That very clearly isn't the goal or agenda behind what's happening in Oklahoma, however. And even if it were, the subject would be too complex and nuanced to teach to fifth graders, which is why most such courses are available at higher levels and as electives, and they don't exclusively focus on Christian doctrine.
    - emchammer 2y ago
      I missed that when I read the article. But that is part of it, it just says "the Bible". For me, I just think of the Tanakh, or what Christians call the Old Testament. It did not occur to me that this could mean a Christian scriptural-literalist interpretation until I read of Walters' background. Like Sarah Silverman said, in this country, if you are sworn in court or government office, "it's not even my Bible". When I visited a county fair in Texas once, somebody handed me a booklet that was just the New Testament, which blew my mind. I did not know that Christians just drop the Hebrew Bible.
  - seatac76 2y ago
    Fair enough, but I’d wager that people pushing this would flip out if other religious texts were being taught.
jollofricepeas 2y ago
Ban all books! We cannot trust teachers to objectively teach with the right historical, political and social context. Ban all books!
- LoFiSamurai 2y ago
  Your point is taken, but shouldn’t we also trust teachers to choose which books will best serve their classroom?
  - jollofricepeas 2y ago
    To expand that.. Should we trust state governments to choose the best laws for their citizens?
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

26 points by isaacfrond 2y ago

See this is a perfect example of why I had kindergarten-level English proficiency at 2 years old… I realized, around the moment the first tornado jumped our house, days after I’d been brought home from the maternity ward, that one way or another my survival depended on communicating to two obviously bewildered and clearly confused adults that we had to get the fuck out of Oklahoma.

reify 2y ago

Bigot! What if you are of a different faith? What if you are not god fearing? What if you do not want your children being taught about a 2000 years old fantasy book that was only written 400 years after the crucifiction. Imagine writing about todays events in 400 years time passed down just by word of mouth and a few pages of text. Notice too that the word crucifiction has Fiction in it. Fiction is any creative work, chiefly any narrative work, portraying individuals, events, or places that are imaginary or in ways that are imaginary. Fictional portrayals are thus inconsistent with history, fact, or plausibility.

jncfhnb 2y ago
The word Crucifixion does not contain fiction and is actually historically well documented. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
- IggleSniggle 2y ago
  The irony elevates the post, as if from the dead

ordu 2y ago

I wonder, is it a productive approach to the superintendent concerns? Anecdotal evidence with sample size = 1 (me) points that the more your force your ideologies to me, the more resistance you get from me. I'm still struggling to keep myself agnostic without falling into aggressive atheism exactly because a lot of religious people feel the need to convert me into Christianity. And it works through all my life, with not just religion but with national pride, patriotism, classic literature and really any thing that I do not care of but someone decided to change that forcefully. It is counterproductive with me, but I watch how people are still trying to do it. Does it work?

alephnerd 2y ago
> I wonder, is it a productive approach to the superintendent concerns It doesn't matter. Oklahoma's current governor Kevin Stitt is term limited and Ryan Walters is angling for either a gubinatoral run in 2026 [0][1][2] or Secretary of Education under a Republican president [1][3] Superintendent of Public Instruction in Oklahoma is a very powerful and high visibility position that can be leveraged into a Gubinatorial run, as Walter's predecessor Joy Hofmeister ran for Governor, and her predecessor Janet Barresi ran for Congress. [0] - https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/government/2023/08/25/ryan-walters-for-governor-oklahoma-website-not-real-officials-say/70678394007/ https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/politics/government/202... [1] - https://www.the74million.org/article/the-mystery-of-ryan-walters-how-a-beloved-history-teacher-became-oklahomas-culture-warrior-in-chief/ https://www.the74million.org/article/the-mystery-of-ryan-wal... [2] - https://ryanwaltersforgovernor.com/ https://ryanwaltersforgovernor.com/ [3] - https://oklahomavoice.com/briefs/ryan-walters-endorses-donald-trump-plans-to-join-his-reelection-team/ https://oklahomavoice.com/briefs/ryan-walters-endorses-donal...
yawpitch 2y ago
Interesting thought experiment. Going down that route, I’m going to explicitly not promote the idea of hard atheism to you. Please report back before death if you’ve eventually abandoned agnosticism or not.

Veliladon 2y ago

What kind of Christianity? Nicene or Restorationist? Which denomination, Ryan? Adventism, Anabaptism, Anglicanism, Baptists, Lutheranism, Methodism, Moravianism, Quakerism, Pentecostalism, Plymouth Brethren, Reformed Christianity, Waldensianism? Which subbranch of which denomination? It's that fucking Simpsons quote, "Bart, we're here to bring you back to the one true faith, Western Branch of American Reform Presbylutheranism". That's why the government doesn't sponsor religion. Because there'd be a fucking civil war between the sects of Christianity trying to get their creed as the state one and the persecuted ones wouldn't back down. Nevertheless, if I was forced to teach the kids the Bible I'd personally go straight for Nestorianism. Indoctrinate those kids and take that Nicene Creed down a peg.

thesuperbigfrog 2y ago
Comedian Emo Philips tells of walking across a bridge and seeing a man standing on the edge, ready to jump off. He ran over and said, “Stop! Don’t do it!” “Why shouldn’t I?” he said. “Well, there’s so much to live for.” “Like what?” “Well, are you religious?” He said, “Yes.” I said, “Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?” “Christian.” “Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?” “Protestant.” “Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?” “Baptist.” “Wow, me too! Are you Baptist Church of God or Baptist Church of the Lord?” “Baptist Church of God!” “Me too! Are you original Baptist Church of God or Reformed Baptist Church of God?” “Reformed Baptist Church of God!” “Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915?” His new friend replied, “Reformed Baptist Church of God, reformation of 1915.” To which Philips replied, “Die, heretic!,” and he pushed him off. Source: https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/dr-james-emery-white/the-best-religious-joke-ever.html https://www.crosswalk.com/headlines/contributors/dr-james-em...
- jmpman 2y ago
  Emo Philips tours with Weird Al, and did this joke at the last Weird Al concert. Thrilled to hear it live.
jollofricepeas 2y ago

impish9208 2y ago

Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816994 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816994

freen 2y ago

The cannibal zombie cult that uses a gruesome execution device as their symbol? No thanks.

IggleSniggle 2y ago
As long as you eat the transmogrified flesh, you get to be a zombie too, at some point (the last day), no matter your sins in life...well as long as you give all your wealth away first (preferably to the Church but if you give it in a way that brings more people that's okay too). The institution just gives you an opportunity to start the process during life as a gentle precursor to what comes after death.
theandrewbailey 2y ago
Not to mention, the word "christian" was originally meant as an insult. So offensive.
- justinclift 2y ago
  It still kind of is?
justinclift 2y ago
Like that old wise crack: "Which part of my story gives you the impression I like crosses? So much that you use one as a symbol for me...?!?!?!"

camgunz 2y ago

Just like people who swear they love the constitution, people who swear they love the Bible usually have no idea what's in it. Like if you want to go full "New Covenant" you don't need the Bible for that; if you don't well welcome to observing the Sabbath and not mixing your cloths.

seatac76 2y ago

This violates the Establishment clause, will get tossed out if it goes to the Supreme Court. There is a reason religion should be kept away from the state. So stupid shit like this does not happen.

emchammer 2y ago
A survey of world religion, including the great texts, as an adjunct to social studies seems reasonable to me. It is a huge part of many people's lives. I am Jewish, and I have looked inside the New Testament, the Quran, and the Book of Mormon. Perhaps if approached hermeneutically, like my own religion may be descended from a Yahwistic cult developed through monolatry, or maybe God transmitted the Torah letter for letter via teletype b'har Sinai, but I still keep it next to my bed.
- krapp 2y ago
  >A survey of world religion, including the great texts, as an adjunct to social studies seems reasonable to me. That very clearly isn't the goal or agenda behind what's happening in Oklahoma, however. And even if it were, the subject would be too complex and nuanced to teach to fifth graders, which is why most such courses are available at higher levels and as electives, and they don't exclusively focus on Christian doctrine.
  - emchammer 2y ago
    I missed that when I read the article. But that is part of it, it just says "the Bible". For me, I just think of the Tanakh, or what Christians call the Old Testament. It did not occur to me that this could mean a Christian scriptural-literalist interpretation until I read of Walters' background. Like Sarah Silverman said, in this country, if you are sworn in court or government office, "it's not even my Bible". When I visited a county fair in Texas once, somebody handed me a booklet that was just the New Testament, which blew my mind. I did not know that Christians just drop the Hebrew Bible.
- seatac76 2y ago
  Fair enough, but I’d wager that people pushing this would flip out if other religious texts were being taught.

jollofricepeas 2y ago

Ban all books! We cannot trust teachers to objectively teach with the right historical, political and social context. Ban all books!

LoFiSamurai 2y ago
Your point is taken, but shouldn’t we also trust teachers to choose which books will best serve their classroom?
- jollofricepeas 2y ago
  To expand that.. Should we trust state governments to choose the best laws for their citizens?

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40816352

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]