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So are you suggesting that every time an employee commits a crime, CEOs should go to jail alongside them? Every time a politician commits an offence the presid

So are you suggesting that every time an employee commits a crime, CEOs should go to jail alongside them? Every time a politician commits an offence the president/prime minister should go to prison? Every time a pupil breaks the law, the principal of the school should go to prison? I'd suggest the reason 'no on else seems to have learned' it is because it's a ridiculous and impractical idea. Should CEOs (etc) be punished if they knowingly aid and abet crime and/or cover it up? Sure, I think most people are on board with that.

ClumsyPilot 2y ago
Executives are not punished even when they knowingly and purposefully perpetuate a crime, just see Boeing.
YawningAngel 2y ago
That's exactly how this works in regulated industries. At UK banks there is criminal liability for senior management for institutional failures. Concretely in this case, if you are bringing a prosecution and you fail to uphold the rights of the defendant, yes I absolutely think you should face criminal liability for that.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
> So are you suggesting that every time an employee commits a crime, CEOs should go to jail alongside them? Pretty much, yeah. Happens in the military (not always, of course, but more common). The argument I always hear, justifying the enormous pay differential, between the CEO and their staff, is that the CEO is ultimately responsible for everything. In practice, this almost is never the case.
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  The main reason for CEO pay is that's what it costs to hire a CEO.
  - disgruntledphd2 2y ago
    As determined by Boards filled with other CEOs. I'm pretty sure that SE salaries would be much higher if the only people allowed to determine their salaries were their peers.
    - robertlagrant 2y ago
      Are they filled with other CEOs? I thought boards were filled with different people concerned with different topics. Where do you see that they're filled with other CEOs?
      - triceratops 2y ago
        https://theyrule.net/ https://theyrule.net/ is a good visualizer of boards of public companies, and the titles of the directors.
        robertlagrant 2y ago
        Just as a quick first check, of the three most influential/connected directors listed on the front page: 2 are ex-CEOs, and the third is a mixture, including having been Obama's ambassador to the EU. How did you see how many are CEOs out of the total?
        disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        I just acquired this belief from throwaway comments in the FT over the years. I do know that generally boards are filled with CxO people, because they tend to have the right experience.
        triceratops 2y ago
        The website doesn't have an overall table of stats. You yourself noted that 2/3 of the top 3 are ex-CEOs. They might have taken on those directorships when they were still CEOs. They might take on new CEO roles in the future. I think the overall point stands.
pjc50 2y ago
You're exaggerating this, but there certainly used to be concepts of ministerial and executive responsibility, even for things which were not entirely within that person's knowledge or control. Ministers used to resign voluntarily. "Cabinet collective responsibility" used to be a thing. As recently as the Major government and the first term of Blair. These days senior Tories greet the idea of responsibility with a shrug. That's how we got the Truss disaster, and why they're on course for electoral wipeout.
- mike_hearn 2y ago
  Used to resign voluntarily? They still do, part of why the Conservative government has been so ineffective is that their ministers are constantly resigning or being fired, either due to disagreements with government policy or for some over-the-top honour related reason (e.g. they were accused of being mean to a civil servant). There are ministerial positions where they've had as many ministers in as many years!

ClumsyPilot 2y ago

Executives are not punished even when they knowingly and purposefully perpetuate a crime, just see Boeing.

YawningAngel 2y ago

That's exactly how this works in regulated industries. At UK banks there is criminal liability for senior management for institutional failures. Concretely in this case, if you are bringing a prosecution and you fail to uphold the rights of the defendant, yes I absolutely think you should face criminal liability for that.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

> So are you suggesting that every time an employee commits a crime, CEOs should go to jail alongside them? Pretty much, yeah. Happens in the military (not always, of course, but more common). The argument I always hear, justifying the enormous pay differential, between the CEO and their staff, is that the CEO is ultimately responsible for everything. In practice, this almost is never the case.

robertlagrant 2y ago
The main reason for CEO pay is that's what it costs to hire a CEO.
- disgruntledphd2 2y ago
  As determined by Boards filled with other CEOs. I'm pretty sure that SE salaries would be much higher if the only people allowed to determine their salaries were their peers.
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    Are they filled with other CEOs? I thought boards were filled with different people concerned with different topics. Where do you see that they're filled with other CEOs?
    - triceratops 2y ago
      https://theyrule.net/ https://theyrule.net/ is a good visualizer of boards of public companies, and the titles of the directors.
      - robertlagrant 2y ago
        Just as a quick first check, of the three most influential/connected directors listed on the front page: 2 are ex-CEOs, and the third is a mixture, including having been Obama's ambassador to the EU. How did you see how many are CEOs out of the total?
        disgruntledphd2 2y ago
        I just acquired this belief from throwaway comments in the FT over the years. I do know that generally boards are filled with CxO people, because they tend to have the right experience.
        triceratops 2y ago
        The website doesn't have an overall table of stats. You yourself noted that 2/3 of the top 3 are ex-CEOs. They might have taken on those directorships when they were still CEOs. They might take on new CEO roles in the future. I think the overall point stands.

pjc50 2y ago

You're exaggerating this, but there certainly used to be concepts of ministerial and executive responsibility, even for things which were not entirely within that person's knowledge or control. Ministers used to resign voluntarily. "Cabinet collective responsibility" used to be a thing. As recently as the Major government and the first term of Blair. These days senior Tories greet the idea of responsibility with a shrug. That's how we got the Truss disaster, and why they're on course for electoral wipeout.

mike_hearn 2y ago
Used to resign voluntarily? They still do, part of why the Conservative government has been so ineffective is that their ministers are constantly resigning or being fired, either due to disagreements with government policy or for some over-the-top honour related reason (e.g. they were accused of being mean to a civil servant). There are ministerial positions where they've had as many ministers in as many years!