4 ms·

> Crossing state lines with more than a couple of packs of smokes can land you in prison for a long time. Is this actually true? I don't see any sources vouchi

> Crossing state lines with more than a couple of packs of smokes can land you in prison for a long time. Is this actually true? I don't see any sources vouching for this claim from a quick search.

readthenotes1 2y ago
https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/cigarette-bootlegging-state-federal-responsibility https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/cigarett... I suppose if you bring a moving band's worth of cigarettes across the state line, you're going to have to do some mighty fast talking to convince people that you weren't planning on reselling them
- bauruine 2y ago
  The site is about 10 packs.
erickj 2y ago
Cigarette smuggling has a few aspects and each state while give it different priority based on its own economic incentives. But for a glimpse at the federal level, the ATF says [1] their justification is interested in enforcement (among other things) of: "Illegal possession and/or transportation and distribution of more than 10,000 unstamped (non-state tax-paid) cigarettes." This is mostly a tax revenue issue. Some other interesting info at the state level can be found at https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/cigarette-taxes-cigarette-smuggling-2023/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/cigarette-taxes-cig... tldr; it will almost certainly take more than transporting "a few packs" for personal consumption to get in trouble in the "land of the free" at the federal level, however each state will he more or less aggressive depending on its own priorities 1. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-tobacco-enforcement https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-to...
- fbdab103 2y ago
  My quick skim of the site did not show a time duration. Can I move 9,999 cigarettes per day? Or is it a lifetime kind of allowance? Not a smoker, but vaping seems like it would avoid so much hassle. Buy a barrel of the stuff and be set for the rest of your life.
  - blahyawnblah 2y ago
    I believe stuff like that is "at a time"
  - mschuster91 2y ago
    > Not a smoker, but vaping seems like it would avoid so much hassle. Buy a barrel of the stuff and be set for the rest of your life. That's why Germany introduced an insane tax on liquids [1]... but not just on nicotine shots that you add to base liquid, or aroma shots, but on the base liquid itself. So while you can definitely go ahead and buy PG/VG wholesale without the tax, the moment you add nic shots or fill it into your vape, you commit the crime of tax evasion. Utterly ridiculous and shows just how much pull Big Tobacco still has on politics. Side note: there's quite the scare of Big Tobacco going around of vape liquid being toxic and whatnot... it's bullshit. The base liquid and aromas have all been known and used for decades in ordinary disco foggers and hazers. The only dangers around vaping are nicotine itself and shoddily manufactured liquids like the infamous deadly cannabis extracts from a few years ago that contained leftover oil contaminations. [1] https://www.happy-liquid.de/blog/liquidsteuer-umgehen/ https://www.happy-liquid.de/blog/liquidsteuer-umgehen/
- wink 2y ago
  I think there's a huge gap between "if you allow 10 packs and the person brings 20" and actual smuggling. The former is probably technically that, but I doubt many people were caught for those numbers, or it's their own fault for trying to save 10 bucks.
20after4 2y ago
I don’t have direct references but I know someone who was prosecuted for bootlegging. I live in the state with the lowest cigarette tax (Missouri). People will routinely cross the state line from Arkansas to buy both cigarettes (lower tax) and alcohol (most of northern Arkansas counties are dry.)
qingcharles 2y ago
I spent some time working on the defense of a heroin dealer who was moving huge quantities of drugs, but clearly the DEA didn't see him as a big enough target at the time. Once he mentioned to an undercover that he would be interested in moving cigarettes the ATF went nuclear trying to take him down. I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of the ATF, they have an alarming amount of resources apparently, when they are poked.

> Crossing state lines with more than a couple of packs of smokes can land you in prison for a long time. Is this actually true? I don't see any sources vouching for this claim from a quick search.

readthenotes1 2y ago

https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/cigarette-bootlegging-state-federal-responsibility https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/cigarett... I suppose if you bring a moving band's worth of cigarettes across the state line, you're going to have to do some mighty fast talking to convince people that you weren't planning on reselling them

bauruine 2y ago
The site is about 10 packs.

erickj 2y ago

Cigarette smuggling has a few aspects and each state while give it different priority based on its own economic incentives. But for a glimpse at the federal level, the ATF says [1] their justification is interested in enforcement (among other things) of: "Illegal possession and/or transportation and distribution of more than 10,000 unstamped (non-state tax-paid) cigarettes." This is mostly a tax revenue issue. Some other interesting info at the state level can be found at https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/cigarette-taxes-cigarette-smuggling-2023/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/cigarette-taxes-cig... tldr; it will almost certainly take more than transporting "a few packs" for personal consumption to get in trouble in the "land of the free" at the federal level, however each state will he more or less aggressive depending on its own priorities 1. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-tobacco-enforcement https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-to...

fbdab103 2y ago
My quick skim of the site did not show a time duration. Can I move 9,999 cigarettes per day? Or is it a lifetime kind of allowance? Not a smoker, but vaping seems like it would avoid so much hassle. Buy a barrel of the stuff and be set for the rest of your life.
- blahyawnblah 2y ago
  I believe stuff like that is "at a time"
- mschuster91 2y ago
  > Not a smoker, but vaping seems like it would avoid so much hassle. Buy a barrel of the stuff and be set for the rest of your life. That's why Germany introduced an insane tax on liquids [1]... but not just on nicotine shots that you add to base liquid, or aroma shots, but on the base liquid itself. So while you can definitely go ahead and buy PG/VG wholesale without the tax, the moment you add nic shots or fill it into your vape, you commit the crime of tax evasion. Utterly ridiculous and shows just how much pull Big Tobacco still has on politics. Side note: there's quite the scare of Big Tobacco going around of vape liquid being toxic and whatnot... it's bullshit. The base liquid and aromas have all been known and used for decades in ordinary disco foggers and hazers. The only dangers around vaping are nicotine itself and shoddily manufactured liquids like the infamous deadly cannabis extracts from a few years ago that contained leftover oil contaminations. [1] https://www.happy-liquid.de/blog/liquidsteuer-umgehen/ https://www.happy-liquid.de/blog/liquidsteuer-umgehen/
wink 2y ago
I think there's a huge gap between "if you allow 10 packs and the person brings 20" and actual smuggling. The former is probably technically that, but I doubt many people were caught for those numbers, or it's their own fault for trying to save 10 bucks.

20after4 2y ago

I don’t have direct references but I know someone who was prosecuted for bootlegging. I live in the state with the lowest cigarette tax (Missouri). People will routinely cross the state line from Arkansas to buy both cigarettes (lower tax) and alcohol (most of northern Arkansas counties are dry.)

qingcharles 2y ago

I spent some time working on the defense of a heroin dealer who was moving huge quantities of drugs, but clearly the DEA didn't see him as a big enough target at the time. Once he mentioned to an undercover that he would be interested in moving cigarettes the ATF went nuclear trying to take him down. I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of the ATF, they have an alarming amount of resources apparently, when they are poked.