3 ms·

I agree. If your organization has the resources for it, go contract-to-hire. 3 to 6 month contractor and then make your decision bringing them on as a full empl

I agree. If your organization has the resources for it, go contract-to-hire. 3 to 6 month contractor and then make your decision bringing them on as a full employee.

busterarm 2y ago
In practice this almost never happens. Most contract to hire roles don't appropriately pay you like you're a contractor (really should be at least 3x salary) and get worse/desperate candidates who will take an unsecure job with no benefits for 3-6 months. Real human beings with real responsibilities are usually looking for fulltime work or they're running their own business and charging you for services.
- ilaksh 2y ago
  I would like to be running my own business.. have a few times in the past.. but usually run out of money before the next SaaS attempt or whatever is ready and have to find a contract on short notice. I guess I'm not a real human being.
  - busterarm 2y ago
    No, you just have a higher risk tolerance than most and also probably a spouse that really believes in you. You are blessed.
- sublinear 2y ago
  Many contractor orgs provide benefits during the contracting period and pay at least 1.5x salary before the employee comes aboard as a full employee. Also, as so many others have stated on this site, many people just as talented or better than in silicon valley aren't looking for 500k+ a year because they don't live in a hyperinflated shithole, but that's another topic altogether. All I can say is salary is relative and nobody should let that go to their head. The economy in the USA, but especially on the west coast has never experienced inflation like we currently have and are in for a rude awakening soon.
  - busterarm 2y ago
    My whole point is it's a worse deal at anything less than 3x pay. Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? My brother used to contract-to-hire in the 90s-00s for banks and not even getting issued a laptop for the first few months of a contract happened nearly 100% of the time. Literally months of sitting around writing emails going "I can't do the work you're paying me for because you haven't issued me equipment yet" and that was routine. Or if it wasn't working equipment, it was company accounts/logins. I even did a year of this once with a hedge fund in the early 00s. Once and never again. Contractors don't get meaningful responsibilities and meaningful responsibilities are how I justify myself (and my price) to my next job. No thanks.
    - sublinear 2y ago
      > Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? Hard disagree. They're not really looking to extend full employment to people like you, but may from time to time. If you're really that good you have nothing to worry about. I'm speaking from experience working on both ends of the contract-to-hire process.
      - busterarm 2y ago
        If I'm really that good I have another contract lined up already and I'm out the door. The only way you're getting me back is with a fulltime offer after my next contract ends. Or you're buying me out. Might as well skip the games. I've been on both sides of it too and I would never hire that way looking for good, experienced people. My experience with people successful at work is that they're successful in other endeavors too such as their private life. Experience also tells me that most peoples' life partners are extremely intolerant of career uncertainty, unless as a couple they are both very young.
        sublinear 2y ago
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
Similar to what is discussed in the article, this basically optimizes for the most desperate candidates who can't get a job straight out of the gate. For starters, very few people would leave a good, full time job for a contract-to-hire position.
dumbo-octopus 2y ago
How many talented folks in the field will accept that kind of job insecurity? If my offer is between 500k+ TC or “do work for us until we feel like commitment and maybe you’ll be on your ass in the street doing all this interview bullshit in 12 weeks; maybe you’ll get an offer better than the competition — but probably not because we’ll be in a position of negotiating strength knowing you probably don’t want to interview again”, I know damn well which one I’m taking. Especially because I was given just that choice a few month back.
- sbrother 2y ago
  Plenty of talented folks will do it as actual contractors taking on projects for a few months at $250-300/hr. I did that for five years and was always open to my clients bringing me on full time for the right price. But the opportunity cost/price of exclusivity is very high. "Contract to hire" is the worst of both worlds; I've only seen that work for bottom-of-the-barrel employers/employees.

I agree. If your organization has the resources for it, go contract-to-hire. 3 to 6 month contractor and then make your decision bringing them on as a full employee.

busterarm 2y ago

In practice this almost never happens. Most contract to hire roles don't appropriately pay you like you're a contractor (really should be at least 3x salary) and get worse/desperate candidates who will take an unsecure job with no benefits for 3-6 months. Real human beings with real responsibilities are usually looking for fulltime work or they're running their own business and charging you for services.

ilaksh 2y ago
I would like to be running my own business.. have a few times in the past.. but usually run out of money before the next SaaS attempt or whatever is ready and have to find a contract on short notice. I guess I'm not a real human being.
- busterarm 2y ago
  No, you just have a higher risk tolerance than most and also probably a spouse that really believes in you. You are blessed.
sublinear 2y ago
Many contractor orgs provide benefits during the contracting period and pay at least 1.5x salary before the employee comes aboard as a full employee. Also, as so many others have stated on this site, many people just as talented or better than in silicon valley aren't looking for 500k+ a year because they don't live in a hyperinflated shithole, but that's another topic altogether. All I can say is salary is relative and nobody should let that go to their head. The economy in the USA, but especially on the west coast has never experienced inflation like we currently have and are in for a rude awakening soon.
- busterarm 2y ago
  My whole point is it's a worse deal at anything less than 3x pay. Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? My brother used to contract-to-hire in the 90s-00s for banks and not even getting issued a laptop for the first few months of a contract happened nearly 100% of the time. Literally months of sitting around writing emails going "I can't do the work you're paying me for because you haven't issued me equipment yet" and that was routine. Or if it wasn't working equipment, it was company accounts/logins. I even did a year of this once with a hedge fund in the early 00s. Once and never again. Contractors don't get meaningful responsibilities and meaningful responsibilities are how I justify myself (and my price) to my next job. No thanks.
  - sublinear 2y ago
    > Three to six months of 1.5x pay just to have to look for a job again and you probably haven't done any meaningful work in the last three to six months? Hard disagree. They're not really looking to extend full employment to people like you, but may from time to time. If you're really that good you have nothing to worry about. I'm speaking from experience working on both ends of the contract-to-hire process.
    - busterarm 2y ago
      If I'm really that good I have another contract lined up already and I'm out the door. The only way you're getting me back is with a fulltime offer after my next contract ends. Or you're buying me out. Might as well skip the games. I've been on both sides of it too and I would never hire that way looking for good, experienced people. My experience with people successful at work is that they're successful in other endeavors too such as their private life. Experience also tells me that most peoples' life partners are extremely intolerant of career uncertainty, unless as a couple they are both very young.
      - sublinear 2y ago

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

Similar to what is discussed in the article, this basically optimizes for the most desperate candidates who can't get a job straight out of the gate. For starters, very few people would leave a good, full time job for a contract-to-hire position.

dumbo-octopus 2y ago

How many talented folks in the field will accept that kind of job insecurity? If my offer is between 500k+ TC or “do work for us until we feel like commitment and maybe you’ll be on your ass in the street doing all this interview bullshit in 12 weeks; maybe you’ll get an offer better than the competition — but probably not because we’ll be in a position of negotiating strength knowing you probably don’t want to interview again”, I know damn well which one I’m taking. Especially because I was given just that choice a few month back.

sbrother 2y ago
Plenty of talented folks will do it as actual contractors taking on projects for a few months at $250-300/hr. I did that for five years and was always open to my clients bringing me on full time for the right price. But the opportunity cost/price of exclusivity is very high. "Contract to hire" is the worst of both worlds; I've only seen that work for bottom-of-the-barrel employers/employees.