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Show HN: SmokeScanner – Using cigarette price arbitrage to find free flights
- 20after4 2y agoI think this activity would be completely Illegal in the USA. Crossing state lines with more than a couple of packs of smokes can land you in prison for a long time.
- newzisforsukas 2y ago> Crossing state lines with more than a couple of packs of smokes can land you in prison for a long time. Is this actually true? I don't see any sources vouching for this claim from a quick search.
- readthenotes1 2y agohttps://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/cigarette-bootlegging-state-federal-responsibility https://www.ojp.gov/ncjrs/virtual-library/abstracts/cigarett... I suppose if you bring a moving band's worth of cigarettes across the state line, you're going to have to do some mighty fast talking to convince people that you weren't planning on reselling them
- bauruine 2y agoThe site is about 10 packs.
- erickj 2y agoCigarette smuggling has a few aspects and each state while give it different priority based on its own economic incentives. But for a glimpse at the federal level, the ATF says [1] their justification is interested in enforcement (among other things) of: "Illegal possession and/or transportation and distribution of more than 10,000 unstamped (non-state tax-paid) cigarettes." This is mostly a tax revenue issue. Some other interesting info at the state level can be found at https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/cigarette-taxes-cigarette-smuggling-2023/ https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/cigarette-taxes-cig... tldr; it will almost certainly take more than transporting "a few packs" for personal consumption to get in trouble in the "land of the free" at the federal level, however each state will he more or less aggressive depending on its own priorities 1. https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-tobacco-enforcement https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-to...
- fbdab103 2y agoMy quick skim of the site did not show a time duration. Can I move 9,999 cigarettes per day? Or is it a lifetime kind of allowance? Not a smoker, but vaping seems like it would avoid so much hassle. Buy a barrel of the stuff and be set for the rest of your life.
- blahyawnblah 2y agoI believe stuff like that is "at a time"
- mschuster91 2y ago> Not a smoker, but vaping seems like it would avoid so much hassle. Buy a barrel of the stuff and be set for the rest of your life. That's why Germany introduced an insane tax on liquids [1]... but not just on nicotine shots that you add to base liquid, or aroma shots, but on the base liquid itself. So while you can definitely go ahead and buy PG/VG wholesale without the tax, the moment you add nic shots or fill it into your vape, you commit the crime of tax evasion. Utterly ridiculous and shows just how much pull Big Tobacco still has on politics. Side note: there's quite the scare of Big Tobacco going around of vape liquid being toxic and whatnot... it's bullshit. The base liquid and aromas have all been known and used for decades in ordinary disco foggers and hazers. The only dangers around vaping are nicotine itself and shoddily manufactured liquids like the infamous deadly cannabis extracts from a few years ago that contained leftover oil contaminations. [1] https://www.happy-liquid.de/blog/liquidsteuer-umgehen/ https://www.happy-liquid.de/blog/liquidsteuer-umgehen/
- wink 2y agoI think there's a huge gap between "if you allow 10 packs and the person brings 20" and actual smuggling. The former is probably technically that, but I doubt many people were caught for those numbers, or it's their own fault for trying to save 10 bucks.
- 20after4 2y agoI don’t have direct references but I know someone who was prosecuted for bootlegging. I live in the state with the lowest cigarette tax (Missouri). People will routinely cross the state line from Arkansas to buy both cigarettes (lower tax) and alcohol (most of northern Arkansas counties are dry.)
- qingcharles 2y agoI spent some time working on the defense of a heroin dealer who was moving huge quantities of drugs, but clearly the DEA didn't see him as a big enough target at the time. Once he mentioned to an undercover that he would be interested in moving cigarettes the ATF went nuclear trying to take him down. I wouldn't want to get on the bad side of the ATF, they have an alarming amount of resources apparently, when they are poked.
- mypalmike 2y agoSame in the UK if you don't declare and pay taxes. Source: Cigarette smugglers were caught on every episode of "Customs UK".
- postepowanieadm 2y agoUK Customs had full page adverts in Polish newspapers warning potential cigarette smugglers. It was hilarious.
- jasebell 2y agoCould the code be open sourced? I care about whiskey much more.
- jordemort 2y agoAssuming you can find someone who wants to buy a one-off carton of foreign smokes for full price from some stranger
- bauruine 2y agoI assume it's for people who smoke.
- Hamuko 2y agoWould reselling duty-free fags even be legal? Because it sure doesn't feel legal.
- Freak_NL 2y agoIt's illegal in a number of countries. In the Netherlands you may only import fags for personal use; reselling is explicitly prohibited. The amount of fags imported is limited too — tools like this one pretty much have to assume the user will illegally import their cigarettes. For the UK any amount over 200 cigarettes means VAT will have to be paid.
- dnh44 2y agoThe 200 cigarette limit is quite new. I believe that until recently there was no limit as long as it was for personal use. Anyway I’ve never noticed anyone declaring their cigarettes at customs so I think it just one of those rules that never gets enforced.
- metadat 2y agoI saw it enforced on the show Border Patrol.
- soneil 2y agoThe limit for duty-free has existed for a long time (in 2002 I bought a a 5x10x20 pack on my way out of the country, and was warned I wouldn't be able to bring it back. This is quite a distinct memory as I remember quite proudly telling them I wasn't coming back!) I believe what's been lost is the "booze cruise" intra-EU option (where tax has been paid elsewhere in the EU) where the limit is "for personal use", an incredibly vague limit where the onus is on you to convince customs that you have no intent to sell.
- teo_zero 2y agoBrilliant! I wonder if there are other goods with similarly high gaps in price.
- fbdab103 2y agoOutside of luxury goods, I suspect the best arbitrage is found in items with high taxes. For which governments are usually not too keen on allowing untaxed imports.
- soneil 2y agoWithin the EU at least, "sin taxes" work well for this because carrying them across the border for personal consumption is the only legal workaround. For most other things, if they're notably cheaper in another EU country, I can just order it from that EU country. For example, I'm in Ireland (relatively HCOL), and I regularly visit Slovakia (relatively LCOL). When I used to smoke, it was 3.30/pack in Slovakia and 12.50/pack in Ireland. I could legally bring 40 packs back with me, so €368 to be saved - back then that would not only cover flights, but also a couple of nights in a half-decent hotel. (sunken-cost assumed, obviously). But to compare, for example, an m3pro macbook pro, the difference is €100 - at which point you're really only juggling the difference between 23% and 20% VAT rates. Outside of europe the gloves come off. Brazil, for example, has famously high import duties - so smuggling the same macbook to Brazil would have a much greater pay-off.
- hnthr_w_y 2y agoA greater saving trick I've found out recently, with even greater gains than saving on cigs is not buying cigs at all.
- mosselman 2y agoWow, infinite free travel.
- kazinator 2y agoIndeed. If you don't plan on smoking them, you have to sell the cigs to make this work. Flight costs $N, so you buy enough cheap cigs here and sell higher there so that you make $N back, plus commission for your effort.
- hgomersall 2y agoPresumably then you also have to factor in the cost of fines weighted by the chance of getting caught?
- kazinator 2y agoThat will likely quickly make it impractical. How much you can make per unit is pegged by the price differential, where the only way to make more is via volume. The probability of getting caught scales super-linearly with volume, unfortunately, and the consequences also. Furthermore, the medium in question (passenger flight) places practical limits on volume, and raises likelihoods for getting caught. E.g. a large suitcase full of cigarettes is much riskier through an airport, than the same amount of cigarettes tucked away among a lot of other stuff in the back of a 1 ton truck going over the border.
- rendx 2y agoThe site is about mere 10 packs. Some jurisdictions allow the personal tax free import of even more than that. Within the European Union, for example, it is 800 cigarettes = 40 packs (200 cigarettes = 10 packs from outside EU). Assuming the "old/classic" size of packs with 20 cigs each.
- jcmp 2y agoLove it, I actually saw that sometimes its cheaper to fly from Europe return to NYC take the bus to Delaware and buy a new Iphone or MacBook than buying it in europe. Could be a nice extension
- dewey 2y agoTurns out that avoiding taxes is saving you money!
- qingcharles 2y agoWe used to do this a lot in the late 80s when it was 99 quid return flights from London<->NYC. Levi's jeans were at designer prices. Swiss watches, ship the boxes separately. I bought my first HDD at an Egghead in Boston in, I think '88, which was vastly cheaper than UK prices due to the dollar exchange.
- Mashimo 2y ago> https://www.smokescanner.com/ https://www.smokescanner.com/ is currently categorized as Pornography How does that dumb ass FortiGuard firewall come up with this? AI?
- throwup238 2y agoSmoking hot scanners are one of the leading causes of time theft and reduced productivity!
- nomilk 2y agoGreat concept if applied to other products. For example it's quite common to travel to countries with low labour costs to save on dental work. Earlier this year I did “upload tourism”, travelling from Australia (where uploads are painfully slow) to Thailand where they were 50x faster. Got my 2Tb done in 3 days where it would have taken half a year back home. Easily justified the cost of the plane ticket and accommodation. In fact, it saved money: telstra 7 x 300gb plans ≈ $2100 Vs flight ($350) + accommodation ($500) + incidentals = ~$1000. ~$1k saving and free holiday
- onnimonni 2y agoUsing a Starlink dish would propably have been cheaper? Upload speeds are not as good as download but 2 terabytes should be uploaded in 2 weeks and 4 days with Starlink 10Mbps. If you want to be very cheap you could do this in your 30 day trial period and return the dish afterwards but I'm assuming you have similiar upload needs often so keeping the dish is propably better.
- Two4 2y agoTest comment please ignore
- dewey 2y agoFinding someone at a university, office or maybe library seems like an easier and more environmentally friendly option.
- nomilk 2y agoThe problem with this is guarding the laptop during the days/weeks (e.g. if you leave your laptop in a university library, even just momentarily for a bathroom break, it could go walking). There’s also the cost/hassle of enrolment (or sharing an existing student’s login).
- dewey 2y agoI was more thinking of asking a friend to upload it on some gigabit connection. Not days then.
- PreInternet01 2y agoSure, if you find smoking doesn't reduce your lifespan enough already, subjecting yourself to the additional indignity of flying Ryanair (proud Boeing 737 MAX customer!) should definitely do the trick.
- hgomersall 2y agoPfft, I'm definitely going to take up smoking just so I can get these amazing free flights! Honestly, I can't believe Ryanair don't use this in their marketing material.
- antihero 2y agoThis is awesome, can it be expanded to include local prices as well? Also rolling tobacco
- swedishPerson1 2y agoGreat work! I love it LOL
- luke-stanley 2y agoAnyone else notice it continually making lots of requests per second to ryanair.com, even when the page is idle? It uses a lot of bandwidth. I doubt this is GDPR compliant! I can imagine the ICO or HMRC taking an interest! Not the kind of interest anyone wants though! Flight price arbitrage is a fascinating mash-up idea, but this particular angle has dodgy ethics and legality though. Seems like talented work with some bugs, but why mess with the tax man?
- downbad 2y agofixed ;)
- downbad 2y agoUSA! Fuck GDPR!
- luke-stanley 2y agoI'm in the UK, it shows UK flights with prices in pounds, GDPR does apply, even if it's not hosted in the UK.
- postepowanieadm 2y agoIf you enjoy smuggling stories: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Ling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_Ling