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First there were mainframes with thin dumb clients. Classic client-server. Then came thick clients, where some processing happened on the local terminal and so

First there were mainframes with thin dumb clients. Classic client-server. Then came thick clients, where some processing happened on the local terminal and some on the server. Technology advanced far enough to install programs locally and they ran only locally. The 80's and 90's were quite the decades. Someone had a bright idea to build server-based applications that could be accessed via a dumb web browser. That went on for a while, and people realized that things would be better if we did some processing in JavaScript. Now the push continues to do more and more computation locally. Can't wait for the next cycle.

samuelstros 2y ago
> Can't wait for the next cycle. Edge compute :D Have data distributed "wherever" (client, server) to perform computations "wherever". Using a video editor as an example: The video editor running locally means videos can be rendered for free with the user's hardware. Great for hobbyists (or a free-tier!), bad for large projects that would take too long to render. Have "edge compute" and hobbyists can use the free-tier while large projects can render on the cloud.
- Aerbil313 2y ago
  The new Freenet[1]. Edge compute on stereoids, fully decentralized applications and data. No distinction between server/client, everything is a network node. https://freenet.org/ https://freenet.org/
noisy_boy 2y ago
All true but I would say the motivations are not same for each cycle. > First there were mainframes with thin dumb clients. Classic client-server. Computers were very expensive so would be too expensive to have smart clients. The driving force is cost. > Then came thick clients, where some processing happened on the local terminal and some on the server. Computers became cheaper and we had to deliver more things to a growing number of users. The driving force is dual combo of declining cost and increasing demand to do more. > Technology advanced far enough to install programs locally that ran only locally. The 80's and 90's were quite the decades. Costs kept going down, computation power kept going up and things became more decentralized so you could do much more at the client side without having to deal with a big server. The driving force was still declining cost and democratization of computers. > Someone had a bright idea to build server-based applications that could be accessed via a dumb web browser. That was in order to deal with the issue of managing at scale. The driving force was software management and focus on velocity of change. > That went on for a while, and people realized that things would be better if we did some processing in JavaScript. To provide the richness of experience they missed from the 80's/90's locally installed programs. > Now the push continues to do more and more computation locally. I would say that in addition to the usual drivers, now there is an aspect of graceful handling of issues introduced by network deficiency (brought due to over-reliance on server-heavy brower-light applications and the generally growing network hungriness) + increased awareness of privacy concerns. > Can't wait for the next cycle. Maybe server-side democratization/aggregation and continued emphasis on strengthening local experience.
- koliber 2y ago
  Fully agree regarding the motivations. The thing many young devs don't realize that there's a reason for doing things a certain way. It's not "just because this is the best way to build everything."
  - reaperducer 2y ago
    The thing many young devs don't realize that there's a reason for doing things a certain way. It's not "just because this is the best way to build everything." 90% of the modern tech industry is monkey-see-monkey-do. Plenty of devs on HN who are vocally proud that they don't think about how the things they build work, they just build.
    - Filligree 2y ago
      That's not the tech industry, that's just everything. And that's generally fine. We're good at imitation. It's not that most people can't have their own thoughts, but they save that for things that are more important than work -- or at least I hope that's the case.
      - jrm4 2y ago
        Sure but the one not fine thing: There's still just about ZERO accountability for harm. We need regulation or liability, yesterday.
  - jrm4 2y ago
    I teach IT and the thing I try to drill home; the entirety of IT is NOT intelligent design, it's evolution (for BUSINESS, not for tech) -- which includes a whole lot of vestigial stupidity and awfulness.
- franga2000 2y ago
  > The driving force was software management and focus on velocity of change That might have been the motivation for some at the beginning, but the reason cloud-only is now dominant is the SaaS + lock-in model that guarantees recurring revenue for the software company.
api 2y ago
Local/mainframe is a well known “cycle of reincarnation” in software. We are currently in what I call the "mainframe 2.0" era, or maybe even "mainframe 3.0" depending on how far back you go. (The cloud is just the mainframe.)
Justsignedup 2y ago
A critical motivation for dumb web was blackberries and early iphones. They had extremely limited computational power. Remember flash? It was just too power hungry to run on phones. Today's phones are stronger than yesterday's computers.
- koliber 2y ago
  There were many reasons that this cycle unfolded how it did. Many of those reasons were good. It's only a problem when a company jumps on fad and uses technology in a way that is trendy, without understanding the why behind it.
jacobwilliamroy 2y ago
And as a network admin I am pushing to have all of our office computers replaced with thin clients, and centralizing all of our compute resources on a single machine that is probably running Windows Server 2022. The current year is 2024. This architecture was cutting edge in the 1990s. I'm over 30 years behind the curve on this.
AlienRobot 2y ago
AI?
MangoCoffee 2y ago
>Technology advanced far enough to install programs locally and they ran only locally Commonized PCs are a wonderful thing
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

samuelstros 2y ago

> Can't wait for the next cycle. Edge compute :D Have data distributed "wherever" (client, server) to perform computations "wherever". Using a video editor as an example: The video editor running locally means videos can be rendered for free with the user's hardware. Great for hobbyists (or a free-tier!), bad for large projects that would take too long to render. Have "edge compute" and hobbyists can use the free-tier while large projects can render on the cloud.

Aerbil313 2y ago
The new Freenet[1]. Edge compute on stereoids, fully decentralized applications and data. No distinction between server/client, everything is a network node. https://freenet.org/ https://freenet.org/

noisy_boy 2y ago

All true but I would say the motivations are not same for each cycle. > First there were mainframes with thin dumb clients. Classic client-server. Computers were very expensive so would be too expensive to have smart clients. The driving force is cost. > Then came thick clients, where some processing happened on the local terminal and some on the server. Computers became cheaper and we had to deliver more things to a growing number of users. The driving force is dual combo of declining cost and increasing demand to do more. > Technology advanced far enough to install programs locally that ran only locally. The 80's and 90's were quite the decades. Costs kept going down, computation power kept going up and things became more decentralized so you could do much more at the client side without having to deal with a big server. The driving force was still declining cost and democratization of computers. > Someone had a bright idea to build server-based applications that could be accessed via a dumb web browser. That was in order to deal with the issue of managing at scale. The driving force was software management and focus on velocity of change. > That went on for a while, and people realized that things would be better if we did some processing in JavaScript. To provide the richness of experience they missed from the 80's/90's locally installed programs. > Now the push continues to do more and more computation locally. I would say that in addition to the usual drivers, now there is an aspect of graceful handling of issues introduced by network deficiency (brought due to over-reliance on server-heavy brower-light applications and the generally growing network hungriness) + increased awareness of privacy concerns. > Can't wait for the next cycle. Maybe server-side democratization/aggregation and continued emphasis on strengthening local experience.

koliber 2y ago
Fully agree regarding the motivations. The thing many young devs don't realize that there's a reason for doing things a certain way. It's not "just because this is the best way to build everything."
- reaperducer 2y ago
  The thing many young devs don't realize that there's a reason for doing things a certain way. It's not "just because this is the best way to build everything." 90% of the modern tech industry is monkey-see-monkey-do. Plenty of devs on HN who are vocally proud that they don't think about how the things they build work, they just build.
  - Filligree 2y ago
    That's not the tech industry, that's just everything. And that's generally fine. We're good at imitation. It's not that most people can't have their own thoughts, but they save that for things that are more important than work -- or at least I hope that's the case.
    - jrm4 2y ago
      Sure but the one not fine thing: There's still just about ZERO accountability for harm. We need regulation or liability, yesterday.
- jrm4 2y ago
  I teach IT and the thing I try to drill home; the entirety of IT is NOT intelligent design, it's evolution (for BUSINESS, not for tech) -- which includes a whole lot of vestigial stupidity and awfulness.
franga2000 2y ago
> The driving force was software management and focus on velocity of change That might have been the motivation for some at the beginning, but the reason cloud-only is now dominant is the SaaS + lock-in model that guarantees recurring revenue for the software company.

api 2y ago

Local/mainframe is a well known “cycle of reincarnation” in software. We are currently in what I call the "mainframe 2.0" era, or maybe even "mainframe 3.0" depending on how far back you go. (The cloud is just the mainframe.)

Justsignedup 2y ago

A critical motivation for dumb web was blackberries and early iphones. They had extremely limited computational power. Remember flash? It was just too power hungry to run on phones. Today's phones are stronger than yesterday's computers.

koliber 2y ago
There were many reasons that this cycle unfolded how it did. Many of those reasons were good. It's only a problem when a company jumps on fad and uses technology in a way that is trendy, without understanding the why behind it.

jacobwilliamroy 2y ago

And as a network admin I am pushing to have all of our office computers replaced with thin clients, and centralizing all of our compute resources on a single machine that is probably running Windows Server 2022. The current year is 2024. This architecture was cutting edge in the 1990s. I'm over 30 years behind the curve on this.

AlienRobot 2y ago

AI?

MangoCoffee 2y ago

>Technology advanced far enough to install programs locally and they ran only locally Commonized PCs are a wonderful thing

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]