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I agree that the school system is in need of help. And, there's the saying that it was intended to train workers for the machine, which is at least a minor upgr

I agree that the school system is in need of help. And, there's the saying that it was intended to train workers for the machine, which is at least a minor upgrade from "industrial childcare". But, then is it really that bad? I mean, as a nation, we've managed to make it quite a way and lead the world in many categories. And, here we are on HN, cogently observing the issues from the "outside". Yet, I'd wager most of us are products of the public school system. How did so many manage to reach escape velocity?

leetrout 2y ago
Part of this is touched on in "Coddling". Each generation is getting a different (worse?) experience as they are maturing several years later than previous generations. It's not just "public school bad"... quiet a lot of factors in play, especially at the collegiate level. But lots of people disagree with the article and the book. But I found it made compelling, accurate arguments.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago
  I do agree about the maturation rate vs past times. But, I would chalk this up to a number of other factors which have changed and have had a more outsized impact than schools. For one, parenting is far different, with parents now more integrally involved in their childrens' day to day lives. Kids are not encouraged to be independent, nor do they have as much opportunity to make decisions for themselves. I would imagine "Coddling" speaks to that as well. But, that really has very little to do with schools.
_vdye 2y ago
Won't speak of others on HN, but for me, absolutely, 100%, succeeded _despite_ the public education system (as evidenced by ~99% of my peers not "making it" out from a dark place). And as someone self-medicating, and using their own money to seek psychologists, therapy, and help for the damage caused by it ~20 years later still, it is my value statement that it is absolutely 100% utterly, irredeemably horrible. If people really cared about their children, the public education system, as a whole system, would be terminated. They don't.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Or people had a different experience from yours. Is that really so unbelievable that it’s better to think everyone is as traumatized as you but they literally just don’t care about their children? Sorry but that’s completely absurd.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago
  If a school has traumatized 99% of its students (or some co-hort within its student population), then there probably needs to be an investigation. But, I don't think that's most people's experience.
  - Kirth 2y ago
    Groups tend to see collective trauma as normal and (unsubconsciously) work to sustain it.
krageon 2y ago
> is it really that bad? You must have spent at least some time in school. You will have experienced exactly how bad it is - it's not a space for thinking, it is a space for shutting up and conforming. You imply "many" manage to reach escape velocity. The GP's point is the opposite: Most do not, and this is the tragedy.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago
  I largely agree that independent thinking isn't a priority, but there was TAG (which admittedly emphasized skills that all kids should've been taught), and the occasional outstanding teacher. I do believe that critical-thinking is the single-most impactful untaught skill in public schools. It's a gateway to so much more, including an autodidactic lifestyle. It's honestly mind-boggling that logic and critical-thinking aren't a recurring theme. Still, our schools produce a lot of amazing students who go on to make hugely impactful contributions. Sure, it needs improvement. But I think the degree of dysfunction is overstated.

leetrout 2y ago

Part of this is touched on in "Coddling". Each generation is getting a different (worse?) experience as they are maturing several years later than previous generations. It's not just "public school bad"... quiet a lot of factors in play, especially at the collegiate level. But lots of people disagree with the article and the book. But I found it made compelling, accurate arguments.

unclebucknasty 2y ago
I do agree about the maturation rate vs past times. But, I would chalk this up to a number of other factors which have changed and have had a more outsized impact than schools. For one, parenting is far different, with parents now more integrally involved in their childrens' day to day lives. Kids are not encouraged to be independent, nor do they have as much opportunity to make decisions for themselves. I would imagine "Coddling" speaks to that as well. But, that really has very little to do with schools.

_vdye 2y ago

Won't speak of others on HN, but for me, absolutely, 100%, succeeded _despite_ the public education system (as evidenced by ~99% of my peers not "making it" out from a dark place). And as someone self-medicating, and using their own money to seek psychologists, therapy, and help for the damage caused by it ~20 years later still, it is my value statement that it is absolutely 100% utterly, irredeemably horrible. If people really cared about their children, the public education system, as a whole system, would be terminated. They don't.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Or people had a different experience from yours. Is that really so unbelievable that it’s better to think everyone is as traumatized as you but they literally just don’t care about their children? Sorry but that’s completely absurd.
unclebucknasty 2y ago
If a school has traumatized 99% of its students (or some co-hort within its student population), then there probably needs to be an investigation. But, I don't think that's most people's experience.
- Kirth 2y ago
  Groups tend to see collective trauma as normal and (unsubconsciously) work to sustain it.

krageon 2y ago

> is it really that bad? You must have spent at least some time in school. You will have experienced exactly how bad it is - it's not a space for thinking, it is a space for shutting up and conforming. You imply "many" manage to reach escape velocity. The GP's point is the opposite: Most do not, and this is the tragedy.

unclebucknasty 2y ago
I largely agree that independent thinking isn't a priority, but there was TAG (which admittedly emphasized skills that all kids should've been taught), and the occasional outstanding teacher. I do believe that critical-thinking is the single-most impactful untaught skill in public schools. It's a gateway to so much more, including an autodidactic lifestyle. It's honestly mind-boggling that logic and critical-thinking aren't a recurring theme. Still, our schools produce a lot of amazing students who go on to make hugely impactful contributions. Sure, it needs improvement. But I think the degree of dysfunction is overstated.