4 ms·

Nadella's MSFT is plenty underhanded. You only have to look as far as their last two major OS versions. Last four to five if you want to count everything they d

by jdiff 2y ago

Nadella's MSFT is plenty underhanded. You only have to look as far as their last two major OS versions. Last four to five if you want to count everything they did to 7-8.1 to get people on 10. But even just on 10 and 11 there's plenty of anti-user nastiness. And more is getting cooked up every day.[0] [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/microsoft-removes-documentation-for-switching-to-a-local-account-in-windows-11/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/microsoft-removes-do...

kristopolous 2y ago
ok, how is that different from iOS, ChromeOS, macOS, or Android? I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Don't you even have to do that dumb stuff for things like Photoshop now? If so, singling out MSFT as some egregious malcontent for this sounds more like salacious headlines
- userbinator 2y ago
  How is it different? Because MS was not known for this sort of hostility. "Not acting like Google" was a feature.
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    Right so they reverted from the exception to the norm. Tech is either leaders or followers. Everyone is doing touchscreen cars or laptops without ports or phones with a bunch of things I didn't want. It's a problem, sure, but saying HTC, Hyundai, or Microsoft, in this instance, is particularly uniquely evil for following a trend sounds pretty hyperbolic
    - _carbyau_ 2y ago
      They don't have to be uniquely evil for people to be allowed to call them evil. And this is MS changing the behaviour of their product over time. They didn't use to be this evil. Now they are. That's comment worthy.
- nicoburns 2y ago
  > I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Nope. On macOS, iOS and Android I can opt out and stay opted out. Microsoft is being by far the worst of the lot by silently opting people in.
  - deafpolygon 2y ago
    I've opted out of cloud on a laptop of mine for years. No issues.
- jdiff 2y ago
  No other OS employs dark patterns to trick users into upgrading. Plenty of OSes have online accounts that the user is encouraged to use/create, but no other OS forces it. Plenty of other OSes have privacy settings tuned to opt-out, but no other OS has those settings sporadically resetting to the less private defaults. No other major OS runs ads in their app launcher. Even in cases where other OSes do commonly misbehave, Microsoft puts them to shame. I think I had one popup about storing things on iCloud when I set up this MacBook. My Pixel phone rarely sends notifications about features I might have missed, but it's possible to shut those off with a single switch. But on my Windows laptop, Teams insists on launching in the foreground on every boot and OneDrive slides into my notification drawer on a daily basis.
  - dmz73 2y ago
    Two most used OSes on the planet - iOS and Android - force you to create online accounts and do not allow you to fully use your device without online accounts. No one complains about it and instead they praise this as a great feature. Windows does not force you to use the online account to access all the features of your computer, it tries (more and more forcefully) to get you onboard so you get similar backup protection as what you have on your phone but minimally technically savvy users can still create local-only accounts (which is near impossible on the phone OS).
    - vladvasiliu 2y ago
      What's missing from iOS and Android if you don't use cloud accounts? > Windows does not force you to use the online account to access all the features of your computer With current Windows (11 23h2) you have to know the correct incantation to be able to create a local-only account. Is it technically possible to not have a cloud account? I suppose it still is, just the same as you can technically install it on an older CPU with no TPM. Is it something Joe RandomUser will be able to figure out on his own? I doubt it. So in Windows-land, the situation is much closer to "you can't use your pc at all without a cloud account".
      - pohuing 2y ago
- joe_the_user 2y ago
  Your first comment: M$ is not evil! Your second comment: OK, M$ is evil but look at those other evils...
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    MSFT used to be exceptionally evil. Halloween documents, how they screwed IBM with OS/2, their fake pen windows demo to kill Go corp, SCO trials, the skullduggery with Netscape and the antitrust case. They pillaged and burned the competition in the 80s and 90s, legendary stuff. Now what? They have a cloud login like everyone else? Well ok!
    - cheeseomlit 2y ago
      They used their ill-gotten market dominance to turn the desktop personal computer into a dystopian spyware machine for which the primary function is to serve ads and drive MS engagement. I struggle to think of any entity in the modern world that has subverted the potential of the information age more profoundly than Microsoft, they are a pox on mankind and a net loss to humanity
- bdavbdav 2y ago
  Mac and Linux user here. Linux is of course what you make it, but Mac forces no cloud account, contains no freemium apps at install, has no advertisement built in, and respects choices around voice assistants (looking at sneaking copilot into every facet, which is an issue for enterprise.) MS is undeniably the bad one of the 3 currently.
- rchaud 2y ago
  You can use an Android phone without a Google account, and sideload apps without the app store.
nikkwong 2y ago
I was incredibly disgusted to learn that to open a HEIC image on Windows, I would have to download an officially sponsored extension from the Microsoft Store that costs $1. Like.. wow; what's next? Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? At $1, it can't even be netting them a useful amount of revenue, at the cost of appearing more user hostile and eroding more trust.
- Nullabillity 2y ago
  > Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? Not just for new ones. https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-us&gl=SE https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-u...
- seti0Cha 2y ago
  This is likely a result of HEIC being under patent and requiring licensing. I'd guess Microsoft doesn't want to foot the entire bill for something only of use to a possibly small subset of users.
  - nikkwong 2y ago
    Good to know! I hadn't considered that.
nopromisessir 2y ago
This is such a tired trope that should have died in the early 2010s. Those who don't like their direction should just switch to a different OS. Cloud integration brings features which customers want. Customers still can't even be trusted to back up their own data. Customers don't want to upgrade their OS because they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. This is not the outcome one would expect if msft was anti-user. Think about it.
- nottorp 2y ago
  > they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. More spyware? Reduced hardware support for no good reason in case of Windows 11?
- abhinavk 2y ago
  > I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. Not anymore. Now that you will have to pay for the OS, maybe you will think your consumer rights more. It wasn't a charity.

by jdiff 2y ago

kristopolous 2y ago

ok, how is that different from iOS, ChromeOS, macOS, or Android? I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Don't you even have to do that dumb stuff for things like Photoshop now? If so, singling out MSFT as some egregious malcontent for this sounds more like salacious headlines

userbinator 2y ago
How is it different? Because MS was not known for this sort of hostility. "Not acting like Google" was a feature.
- kristopolous 2y ago
  Right so they reverted from the exception to the norm. Tech is either leaders or followers. Everyone is doing touchscreen cars or laptops without ports or phones with a bunch of things I didn't want. It's a problem, sure, but saying HTC, Hyundai, or Microsoft, in this instance, is particularly uniquely evil for following a trend sounds pretty hyperbolic
  - _carbyau_ 2y ago
    They don't have to be uniquely evil for people to be allowed to call them evil. And this is MS changing the behaviour of their product over time. They didn't use to be this evil. Now they are. That's comment worthy.
nicoburns 2y ago
> I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Nope. On macOS, iOS and Android I can opt out and stay opted out. Microsoft is being by far the worst of the lot by silently opting people in.
- deafpolygon 2y ago
  I've opted out of cloud on a laptop of mine for years. No issues.
jdiff 2y ago
No other OS employs dark patterns to trick users into upgrading. Plenty of OSes have online accounts that the user is encouraged to use/create, but no other OS forces it. Plenty of other OSes have privacy settings tuned to opt-out, but no other OS has those settings sporadically resetting to the less private defaults. No other major OS runs ads in their app launcher. Even in cases where other OSes do commonly misbehave, Microsoft puts them to shame. I think I had one popup about storing things on iCloud when I set up this MacBook. My Pixel phone rarely sends notifications about features I might have missed, but it's possible to shut those off with a single switch. But on my Windows laptop, Teams insists on launching in the foreground on every boot and OneDrive slides into my notification drawer on a daily basis.
- dmz73 2y ago
  Two most used OSes on the planet - iOS and Android - force you to create online accounts and do not allow you to fully use your device without online accounts. No one complains about it and instead they praise this as a great feature. Windows does not force you to use the online account to access all the features of your computer, it tries (more and more forcefully) to get you onboard so you get similar backup protection as what you have on your phone but minimally technically savvy users can still create local-only accounts (which is near impossible on the phone OS).
  - vladvasiliu 2y ago
    What's missing from iOS and Android if you don't use cloud accounts? > Windows does not force you to use the online account to access all the features of your computer With current Windows (11 23h2) you have to know the correct incantation to be able to create a local-only account. Is it technically possible to not have a cloud account? I suppose it still is, just the same as you can technically install it on an older CPU with no TPM. Is it something Joe RandomUser will be able to figure out on his own? I doubt it. So in Windows-land, the situation is much closer to "you can't use your pc at all without a cloud account".
    - pohuing 2y ago
joe_the_user 2y ago
Your first comment: M$ is not evil! Your second comment: OK, M$ is evil but look at those other evils...
- kristopolous 2y ago
  MSFT used to be exceptionally evil. Halloween documents, how they screwed IBM with OS/2, their fake pen windows demo to kill Go corp, SCO trials, the skullduggery with Netscape and the antitrust case. They pillaged and burned the competition in the 80s and 90s, legendary stuff. Now what? They have a cloud login like everyone else? Well ok!
  - cheeseomlit 2y ago
    They used their ill-gotten market dominance to turn the desktop personal computer into a dystopian spyware machine for which the primary function is to serve ads and drive MS engagement. I struggle to think of any entity in the modern world that has subverted the potential of the information age more profoundly than Microsoft, they are a pox on mankind and a net loss to humanity
bdavbdav 2y ago
Mac and Linux user here. Linux is of course what you make it, but Mac forces no cloud account, contains no freemium apps at install, has no advertisement built in, and respects choices around voice assistants (looking at sneaking copilot into every facet, which is an issue for enterprise.) MS is undeniably the bad one of the 3 currently.
rchaud 2y ago
You can use an Android phone without a Google account, and sideload apps without the app store.

nikkwong 2y ago

I was incredibly disgusted to learn that to open a HEIC image on Windows, I would have to download an officially sponsored extension from the Microsoft Store that costs $1. Like.. wow; what's next? Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? At $1, it can't even be netting them a useful amount of revenue, at the cost of appearing more user hostile and eroding more trust.

Nullabillity 2y ago
> Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? Not just for new ones. https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-us&gl=SE https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-u...
seti0Cha 2y ago
This is likely a result of HEIC being under patent and requiring licensing. I'd guess Microsoft doesn't want to foot the entire bill for something only of use to a possibly small subset of users.
- nikkwong 2y ago
  Good to know! I hadn't considered that.

nopromisessir 2y ago

This is such a tired trope that should have died in the early 2010s. Those who don't like their direction should just switch to a different OS. Cloud integration brings features which customers want. Customers still can't even be trusted to back up their own data. Customers don't want to upgrade their OS because they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. This is not the outcome one would expect if msft was anti-user. Think about it.

nottorp 2y ago
> they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. More spyware? Reduced hardware support for no good reason in case of Windows 11?
abhinavk 2y ago
> I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. Not anymore. Now that you will have to pay for the OS, maybe you will think your consumer rights more. It wasn't a charity.