5 ms·

Nadella's MSFT isn't Gates's. They haven't been a backstabbing rapscallion for many years.

by kristopolous 2y ago

smegsicle 2y ago
do people actually believe this?
- kristopolous 2y ago
  Maybe I'm just not aware of the evidence. The skullduggery in "Barbarians Led by Bill Gates" looks to be absent these days
ezst 2y ago
Aren't they right now? All I see is similar monopolistic and anticompetitive practices pushed through different product lines.
- creshal 2y ago
  They're not backstabbing, though, They're completely honest about it: You're the product, and you will be milked as hard as possible.
jdiff 2y ago
Nadella's MSFT is plenty underhanded. You only have to look as far as their last two major OS versions. Last four to five if you want to count everything they did to 7-8.1 to get people on 10. But even just on 10 and 11 there's plenty of anti-user nastiness. And more is getting cooked up every day.[0] [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/microsoft-removes-documentation-for-switching-to-a-local-account-in-windows-11/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/microsoft-removes-do...
- kristopolous 2y ago
  ok, how is that different from iOS, ChromeOS, macOS, or Android? I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Don't you even have to do that dumb stuff for things like Photoshop now? If so, singling out MSFT as some egregious malcontent for this sounds more like salacious headlines
  - userbinator 2y ago
    How is it different? Because MS was not known for this sort of hostility. "Not acting like Google" was a feature.
    - kristopolous 2y ago
      Right so they reverted from the exception to the norm. Tech is either leaders or followers. Everyone is doing touchscreen cars or laptops without ports or phones with a bunch of things I didn't want. It's a problem, sure, but saying HTC, Hyundai, or Microsoft, in this instance, is particularly uniquely evil for following a trend sounds pretty hyperbolic
      - _carbyau_ 2y ago
        They don't have to be uniquely evil for people to be allowed to call them evil. And this is MS changing the behaviour of their product over time. They didn't use to be this evil. Now they are. That's comment worthy.
  - nicoburns 2y ago
    > I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Nope. On macOS, iOS and Android I can opt out and stay opted out. Microsoft is being by far the worst of the lot by silently opting people in.
    - deafpolygon 2y ago
      I've opted out of cloud on a laptop of mine for years. No issues.
  - jdiff 2y ago
    No other OS employs dark patterns to trick users into upgrading. Plenty of OSes have online accounts that the user is encouraged to use/create, but no other OS forces it. Plenty of other OSes have privacy settings tuned to opt-out, but no other OS has those settings sporadically resetting to the less private defaults. No other major OS runs ads in their app launcher. Even in cases where other OSes do commonly misbehave, Microsoft puts them to shame. I think I had one popup about storing things on iCloud when I set up this MacBook. My Pixel phone rarely sends notifications about features I might have missed, but it's possible to shut those off with a single switch. But on my Windows laptop, Teams insists on launching in the foreground on every boot and OneDrive slides into my notification drawer on a daily basis.
- nikkwong 2y ago
  I was incredibly disgusted to learn that to open a HEIC image on Windows, I would have to download an officially sponsored extension from the Microsoft Store that costs $1. Like.. wow; what's next? Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? At $1, it can't even be netting them a useful amount of revenue, at the cost of appearing more user hostile and eroding more trust.
  - Nullabillity 2y ago
    > Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? Not just for new ones. https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-us&gl=SE https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-u...
  - seti0Cha 2y ago
    This is likely a result of HEIC being under patent and requiring licensing. I'd guess Microsoft doesn't want to foot the entire bill for something only of use to a possibly small subset of users.
    - nikkwong 2y ago
      Good to know! I hadn't considered that.
- nopromisessir 2y ago
  This is such a tired trope that should have died in the early 2010s. Those who don't like their direction should just switch to a different OS. Cloud integration brings features which customers want. Customers still can't even be trusted to back up their own data. Customers don't want to upgrade their OS because they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. This is not the outcome one would expect if msft was anti-user. Think about it.
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. More spyware? Reduced hardware support for no good reason in case of Windows 11?
  - abhinavk 2y ago
    > I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. Not anymore. Now that you will have to pay for the OS, maybe you will think your consumer rights more. It wasn't a charity.
flakeoil 2y ago
MSFT has never been as bad and evil as they are now. Ads everywhere as just one example and they base their ads on your conversations in their messaging apps.
nottorp 2y ago
Yeah right. They may not be strong arming OEMs any more, so they spy on their users and force upgrade them now. I get a full screen ad for windows 11 on my windows 10 pc at least once per week when i boot. With the mouse conveniently positioned on 'upgrade now'. And say, is anyone sure they stopped strong arming OEMs?

Nadella's MSFT isn't Gates's. They haven't been a backstabbing rapscallion for many years.

smegsicle 2y ago

do people actually believe this?

kristopolous 2y ago
Maybe I'm just not aware of the evidence. The skullduggery in "Barbarians Led by Bill Gates" looks to be absent these days

ezst 2y ago

Aren't they right now? All I see is similar monopolistic and anticompetitive practices pushed through different product lines.

creshal 2y ago
They're not backstabbing, though, They're completely honest about it: You're the product, and you will be milked as hard as possible.

jdiff 2y ago

Nadella's MSFT is plenty underhanded. You only have to look as far as their last two major OS versions. Last four to five if you want to count everything they did to 7-8.1 to get people on 10. But even just on 10 and 11 there's plenty of anti-user nastiness. And more is getting cooked up every day.[0] [0] https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/microsoft-removes-documentation-for-switching-to-a-local-account-in-windows-11/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/microsoft-removes-do...

kristopolous 2y ago
ok, how is that different from iOS, ChromeOS, macOS, or Android? I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Don't you even have to do that dumb stuff for things like Photoshop now? If so, singling out MSFT as some egregious malcontent for this sounds more like salacious headlines
- userbinator 2y ago
  How is it different? Because MS was not known for this sort of hostility. "Not acting like Google" was a feature.
  - kristopolous 2y ago
    Right so they reverted from the exception to the norm. Tech is either leaders or followers. Everyone is doing touchscreen cars or laptops without ports or phones with a bunch of things I didn't want. It's a problem, sure, but saying HTC, Hyundai, or Microsoft, in this instance, is particularly uniquely evil for following a trend sounds pretty hyperbolic
    - _carbyau_ 2y ago
      They don't have to be uniquely evil for people to be allowed to call them evil. And this is MS changing the behaviour of their product over time. They didn't use to be this evil. Now they are. That's comment worthy.
- nicoburns 2y ago
  > I'm mostly a linux user, but the idea of having to sync with a stupid cloud account to use a commercial OS is kinda how things work these days. Nope. On macOS, iOS and Android I can opt out and stay opted out. Microsoft is being by far the worst of the lot by silently opting people in.
  - deafpolygon 2y ago
    I've opted out of cloud on a laptop of mine for years. No issues.
- jdiff 2y ago
  No other OS employs dark patterns to trick users into upgrading. Plenty of OSes have online accounts that the user is encouraged to use/create, but no other OS forces it. Plenty of other OSes have privacy settings tuned to opt-out, but no other OS has those settings sporadically resetting to the less private defaults. No other major OS runs ads in their app launcher. Even in cases where other OSes do commonly misbehave, Microsoft puts them to shame. I think I had one popup about storing things on iCloud when I set up this MacBook. My Pixel phone rarely sends notifications about features I might have missed, but it's possible to shut those off with a single switch. But on my Windows laptop, Teams insists on launching in the foreground on every boot and OneDrive slides into my notification drawer on a daily basis.
nikkwong 2y ago
I was incredibly disgusted to learn that to open a HEIC image on Windows, I would have to download an officially sponsored extension from the Microsoft Store that costs $1. Like.. wow; what's next? Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? At $1, it can't even be netting them a useful amount of revenue, at the cost of appearing more user hostile and eroding more trust.
- Nullabillity 2y ago
  > Pay to play for other new media formats that come out? Not just for new ones. https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-us&gl=SE https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9nblggh2j19w?rtc=1&hl=en-u...
- seti0Cha 2y ago
  This is likely a result of HEIC being under patent and requiring licensing. I'd guess Microsoft doesn't want to foot the entire bill for something only of use to a possibly small subset of users.
  - nikkwong 2y ago
    Good to know! I hadn't considered that.
nopromisessir 2y ago
This is such a tired trope that should have died in the early 2010s. Those who don't like their direction should just switch to a different OS. Cloud integration brings features which customers want. Customers still can't even be trusted to back up their own data. Customers don't want to upgrade their OS because they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. This is not the outcome one would expect if msft was anti-user. Think about it.
- nottorp 2y ago
  > they don't fully value the huge number of advancements that come with major revisions. More spyware? Reduced hardware support for no good reason in case of Windows 11?
- abhinavk 2y ago
  > I got something like 7-10 licenses for windows 7 via a student program when I was in undergrad. Literally haven't paid for a single windows license in over a decade because the upgrades are free and transferable to new hardware in many cases. Not anymore. Now that you will have to pay for the OS, maybe you will think your consumer rights more. It wasn't a charity.

flakeoil 2y ago

MSFT has never been as bad and evil as they are now. Ads everywhere as just one example and they base their ads on your conversations in their messaging apps.

nottorp 2y ago

Yeah right. They may not be strong arming OEMs any more, so they spy on their users and force upgrade them now. I get a full screen ad for windows 11 on my windows 10 pc at least once per week when i boot. With the mouse conveniently positioned on 'upgrade now'. And say, is anyone sure they stopped strong arming OEMs?