5 ms·

The DMA stifles innovation and would make many recent iOS features illegal. Apple Intelligence - points you to Apple Music or Apple Maps as a response to your

The DMA stifles innovation and would make many recent iOS features illegal. Apple Intelligence - points you to Apple Music or Apple Maps as a response to your query? Illegal. iPhone Mirroring - doesn't work with Windows or Android. Illegal. Shareplay screen sharing - doesn't work with Windows or Android. Illegal. There's a reason those features are not getting an EU release.

doikor 2y ago
DMA doesn't block Apple from making any of those features. It just makes it illegal for Apple to block others from implementing the same/similar features.
threeseed 2y ago
The problem isn't that it's illegal it's that it's unknown. DMA enforcement is about the spirit of the law rather than the clear meaning and so everything is vague and subjective. And with the fines being so ridiculously large it's not worth the risk.
- troupo 2y ago
  1. Every law has the spirit of the law. Otherwise you wouldn't need courts to interpret laws, and no law would ever be made because it would have to describe every single permutation of every single possible human endeavour 2. Fines are capped at high numbers. It doesn't mean you will be immediately slapped with one. Stop perpetuating this bullshit. The law says up to, not just this fine and that's it. EU especially doesn't like fining companies. The usual process in the EU is "please fix this -> please fix that -> minor fine -> greater fine if persisting in breaking the law -> even greater fine -> ..."
infotainment 2y ago
Honestly, good. If Apple can't make those features interoperable, then they shouldn't exist at all. With Apple's size and access to development resources, there is absolutely no excuse for them other than greed.
- INGSOCIALITE 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - HumblyTossed 2y ago
    > why the fuck should a government have the right to tell a company what they can and can't do with their product?! I mean, do we really need to enumerate the reasons for you? Next you will think it's okay for someone to manufacture a car that can't be opened when the 12V battery dies.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
    I think the issue is that of scope. Apple is not a mom and pop store, where you can just take your business elsewhere if you are unhappy. It is a global entity with means just to capture the market, but to dictate terms to it ( and by extension to its other participants ). We are now in a position where we effectively have two options ( Apple and Android ) and they both suck in their own special ways ( yes, we also have Purism and wossname, but last time I checked, neither is a decent daily driver ). To address your main point, in theory at least, as a society, we should be able to tell government that something is not cool and address it as needed. The good news for Apple and most oligopolies now is that neither society or government can agree on.. anything really.
    - lynx23 2y ago
      > neither society or government can agree on.. anything really. I believe what you describe is called democracy. The counterpart of which, where everyone "agreees" is totalitarian.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    Companies exist at the pleasure of societies (aka governments), so those societies have literally every right to tell those companies what they can and cannot do. I guess you also think it's bonkers that car makers are required to put seatbelts in their cars.
Dylan16807 2y ago
I'm pretty skeptical of your list, but in general they can easily support interoperability and if they choose not to it's not the fault of the law.
lolinder 2y ago
> Apple Intelligence - points you to Apple Music or Apple Maps as a response to your query? Illegal. There's a very trivial solution here that Apple already applies to password managers and Android applies to a bunch of things: allow the user to pick a Music and a Maps app.
- lxgr 2y ago
  They even talked about letting in others such as Gemini in the very keynote in which they introduced the ChatGPT integration!
lxgr 2y ago
None of these seem like they're impossible for a company the size of Apple to provide open APIs for. They have even already hinted at that for Apple Intelligence! Siri has supported playing music on apps other than just Apple Music for a while now too (after taking their time with it for obvious reasons, which I found infuriating as a Spotify user).
HumblyTossed 2y ago
> The DMA stifles innovation Real innovation would be for iOS devices to be interoperable with non-Apple technology.
yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago
Does the DMA mandate that they actually implement extra apps/features, or just provide the API surface for others to do so? Like, just to pick the first one on your list - any reason they can't just let it point at an arbitrary app that's tagged as providing music (and, I presume, that implements some standard API to query songs or w/e). Does the law really want Apple to integrate with ex. Spotify, or just make it possible for Spotify to integrate the same way as Apple's own music app?
kelnos 2y ago
That's fine. If they can't implement features in a way that doesn't stifle competition or create vendor lock-in, then they don't get to implement those features. I think that's a totally reasonable consequence of the DMA, if true.
dmz73 2y ago
[flagged]
- andybak 2y ago
  Your point would have been more persuasive if you'd eased off on the caps lock.
  - phone8675309 2y ago
    [flagged]

doikor 2y ago

DMA doesn't block Apple from making any of those features. It just makes it illegal for Apple to block others from implementing the same/similar features.

threeseed 2y ago

The problem isn't that it's illegal it's that it's unknown. DMA enforcement is about the spirit of the law rather than the clear meaning and so everything is vague and subjective. And with the fines being so ridiculously large it's not worth the risk.

troupo 2y ago
1. Every law has the spirit of the law. Otherwise you wouldn't need courts to interpret laws, and no law would ever be made because it would have to describe every single permutation of every single possible human endeavour 2. Fines are capped at high numbers. It doesn't mean you will be immediately slapped with one. Stop perpetuating this bullshit. The law says up to, not just this fine and that's it. EU especially doesn't like fining companies. The usual process in the EU is "please fix this -> please fix that -> minor fine -> greater fine if persisting in breaking the law -> even greater fine -> ..."

infotainment 2y ago

Honestly, good. If Apple can't make those features interoperable, then they shouldn't exist at all. With Apple's size and access to development resources, there is absolutely no excuse for them other than greed.

INGSOCIALITE 2y ago
[flagged]
- HumblyTossed 2y ago
  > why the fuck should a government have the right to tell a company what they can and can't do with their product?! I mean, do we really need to enumerate the reasons for you? Next you will think it's okay for someone to manufacture a car that can't be opened when the 12V battery dies.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
  I think the issue is that of scope. Apple is not a mom and pop store, where you can just take your business elsewhere if you are unhappy. It is a global entity with means just to capture the market, but to dictate terms to it ( and by extension to its other participants ). We are now in a position where we effectively have two options ( Apple and Android ) and they both suck in their own special ways ( yes, we also have Purism and wossname, but last time I checked, neither is a decent daily driver ). To address your main point, in theory at least, as a society, we should be able to tell government that something is not cool and address it as needed. The good news for Apple and most oligopolies now is that neither society or government can agree on.. anything really.
  - lynx23 2y ago
    > neither society or government can agree on.. anything really. I believe what you describe is called democracy. The counterpart of which, where everyone "agreees" is totalitarian.
- kelnos 2y ago
  Companies exist at the pleasure of societies (aka governments), so those societies have literally every right to tell those companies what they can and cannot do. I guess you also think it's bonkers that car makers are required to put seatbelts in their cars.

Dylan16807 2y ago

I'm pretty skeptical of your list, but in general they can easily support interoperability and if they choose not to it's not the fault of the law.

lolinder 2y ago

> Apple Intelligence - points you to Apple Music or Apple Maps as a response to your query? Illegal. There's a very trivial solution here that Apple already applies to password managers and Android applies to a bunch of things: allow the user to pick a Music and a Maps app.

lxgr 2y ago
They even talked about letting in others such as Gemini in the very keynote in which they introduced the ChatGPT integration!

lxgr 2y ago

None of these seem like they're impossible for a company the size of Apple to provide open APIs for. They have even already hinted at that for Apple Intelligence! Siri has supported playing music on apps other than just Apple Music for a while now too (after taking their time with it for obvious reasons, which I found infuriating as a Spotify user).

HumblyTossed 2y ago

> The DMA stifles innovation Real innovation would be for iOS devices to be interoperable with non-Apple technology.

yjftsjthsd-h 2y ago

Does the DMA mandate that they actually implement extra apps/features, or just provide the API surface for others to do so? Like, just to pick the first one on your list - any reason they can't just let it point at an arbitrary app that's tagged as providing music (and, I presume, that implements some standard API to query songs or w/e). Does the law really want Apple to integrate with ex. Spotify, or just make it possible for Spotify to integrate the same way as Apple's own music app?

kelnos 2y ago

That's fine. If they can't implement features in a way that doesn't stifle competition or create vendor lock-in, then they don't get to implement those features. I think that's a totally reasonable consequence of the DMA, if true.

dmz73 2y ago

[flagged]

andybak 2y ago
Your point would have been more persuasive if you'd eased off on the caps lock.
- phone8675309 2y ago
  [flagged]