3 ms·

High-pressure youth sports is bad for America

25 points by wawayanda 2y ago

joezydeco 2y ago
I'll give my unpopular opinion here: eliminate all extracurricular sports in American schools. There is too much money, time, and resources spent on materials, facilities, staff, and programming that only benefit a minority of the student population. In other parts of the world there are sports clubs to accommodate those kids (and, eventually and more importantly, post-school adults) eager or talented enough to push their limits, and they can do it after school or on weekends. The article above fails to mention the connection why a lot of parents subject their kids to year-round training. They're looking for the golden ticket to get their kid a college scholarship or, even less likely, fame and fortune in the NCAA and beyond. That system needs to be dismantled. (Protip, to you young parents reading this: your kid will resent the pressure and 99.9% of the time they will outright quit the sport once they're out of your house. Think about how much time and money you've spent to date. Don't you wish you had those weekends back?) My high school district alone employs multiple "vice principals" that are coaches for the big football team. They get the administrative title so they don't have to teach classes. They all make six figures plus a retirement pension, on top of a football stadium that costs a fortune to maintain for 12 games a year. And we're not even in Texas. =) We also have an obnoxiously early start time, which has been proven time and time again to hurt student performance. Some kids are up at 6:00am to catch the bus. Why can't we move the start time later? After school sports.
- meowster 2y ago
  I'm a Scoutmaster (USA). It is disheartening to see kids and their parents give up Scouting to in order to attend practices or games. Some do it because they think they'll have a better chance at scholarships (they won't), the rest I'm not sure. I played sports and did Scouting when I was a kid, and I got a lot more out of Scouting. I have a nephew who played baseball his whole life, whose parents sunk tens of thousands of dollars in training, tournaments, etc. He got one partial scholarship that would never amount to the money they spent, and he gave that scholarship up after a year to transfer to another university where he would have more playing time, and it's unlikely he is going to be picked up. Somehow my sports never interfered with my troop meetings or campouts, but I can't say the same for the Scouts in my troop.
  - hattmall 2y ago
    The scholarships aren't that hard to get. I got several scholarship offers and was at best in the top 30% of players. One of the worst kids on our team got a scholarship but of course it was to a small school far away. The thing is though that college sports are more demanding than a full time job in addition to doing actual school. For even 99.99% of college scholarship athletes there is NO chance of any professional career of significance. I loved playing high school sports, but college was a major escalation for very little pay off.
  - nytesky 2y ago
    I wasn't ever athletic (short and autoimmune issue made most sports painful), but I'm pretty sure my good results for college admittance was because of my Eagle Scout Today, Scouting has lost a lot of luster for complicated reasons, and sports are so dominant that I wonder if there is anything comparable for kids today. Maybe music, but that generally is much more expensive than scouting.
  - diogenescynic 2y ago
    I don't think any one thing is better than the other. When you're a kid you should just be exploring new areas that might interest you. I tried Boy Scouts but didn't really click with the other groups of kids. Sports were good because they were seasonal and you could try out different things to find out what you were good at. I also think art and music are good for kids to try out. I took guitar lessons as a kid and have good memories and learned a lot.
- hattmall 2y ago
  There's loads of data that indicate better educational and life outcomes for kids who participate in sports. Of course the high pressure and things like travel ball are bad. The toxic parents that think their kids are going to go pro are awful as well. I think sports should be extremely encouraged if not required, but should be done strictly through schools, but it's a somewhat free country so people can do what they want.
  - nytesky 2y ago
    How can those studies be sure they aren't conflating cause and effect? Maybe the traits that often lead to success such as being tall and athletic build help you succeed in your career (most CEOs are taller than average for example). You can be fit and healthy without organized sports.
    - hattmall 2y ago
      Most kids playing sports aren't necessarily tall and athletic, anyone can play, not everything is the varsity football team in a competitive district. Most kids playing sports are just average.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Schools are great at making kids dislike sport. They are not so great at making them enjoy it. The kind of sport good for education of kids is the one they like, that causes only low pressure and where you do not feel like complete failure for not being as good as others. You cant get that in school, but you can get it in clubs.
  - afiori 2y ago
    And curiously owning a horse decreases your risk of all-cause death
- bachmeier 2y ago
  > I'll give my unpopular opinion here: eliminate all extracurricular sports in American schools. There is too much money, time, and resources spent on materials, facilities, staff, and programming that only benefit a minority of the student population. > In other parts of the world there are sports clubs to accommodate those kids (and, eventually and more importantly, post-school adults) eager or talented enough to push their limits, and they can do it after school or on weekends. But that is what the author of this article is writing about, expensive travel teams. > The article above fails to mention the connection why a lot of parents subject their kids to year-round training. They're looking for the golden ticket to get their kid a college scholarship or, even less likely, fame and fortune in the NCAA and beyond. That system needs to be dismantled. In my experience, which is not the same as analyzing data, it is almost never the parents pushing their kids to compete at the highest level. It's expensive, it's time consuming, and parents are usually happy when their kid gives it up. It's more like the kid sees what other kids are doing and wants to do the same thing. That puts the parents in a tough position.
- cafard 2y ago
  My two cents: Americans deeply distrust education. It is naturally hierarchical, which is to say not democratic. It is labor intensive, and resists efforts to make it capital intensive. But sports programs, and jobs programs we tolerate pretty well.

25 points by wawayanda 2y ago

I'll give my unpopular opinion here: eliminate all extracurricular sports in American schools. There is too much money, time, and resources spent on materials, facilities, staff, and programming that only benefit a minority of the student population. In other parts of the world there are sports clubs to accommodate those kids (and, eventually and more importantly, post-school adults) eager or talented enough to push their limits, and they can do it after school or on weekends. The article above fails to mention the connection why a lot of parents subject their kids to year-round training. They're looking for the golden ticket to get their kid a college scholarship or, even less likely, fame and fortune in the NCAA and beyond. That system needs to be dismantled. (Protip, to you young parents reading this: your kid will resent the pressure and 99.9% of the time they will outright quit the sport once they're out of your house. Think about how much time and money you've spent to date. Don't you wish you had those weekends back?) My high school district alone employs multiple "vice principals" that are coaches for the big football team. They get the administrative title so they don't have to teach classes. They all make six figures plus a retirement pension, on top of a football stadium that costs a fortune to maintain for 12 games a year. And we're not even in Texas. =) We also have an obnoxiously early start time, which has been proven time and time again to hurt student performance. Some kids are up at 6:00am to catch the bus. Why can't we move the start time later? After school sports.

meowster 2y ago
I'm a Scoutmaster (USA). It is disheartening to see kids and their parents give up Scouting to in order to attend practices or games. Some do it because they think they'll have a better chance at scholarships (they won't), the rest I'm not sure. I played sports and did Scouting when I was a kid, and I got a lot more out of Scouting. I have a nephew who played baseball his whole life, whose parents sunk tens of thousands of dollars in training, tournaments, etc. He got one partial scholarship that would never amount to the money they spent, and he gave that scholarship up after a year to transfer to another university where he would have more playing time, and it's unlikely he is going to be picked up. Somehow my sports never interfered with my troop meetings or campouts, but I can't say the same for the Scouts in my troop.
- hattmall 2y ago
  The scholarships aren't that hard to get. I got several scholarship offers and was at best in the top 30% of players. One of the worst kids on our team got a scholarship but of course it was to a small school far away. The thing is though that college sports are more demanding than a full time job in addition to doing actual school. For even 99.99% of college scholarship athletes there is NO chance of any professional career of significance. I loved playing high school sports, but college was a major escalation for very little pay off.
- nytesky 2y ago
  I wasn't ever athletic (short and autoimmune issue made most sports painful), but I'm pretty sure my good results for college admittance was because of my Eagle Scout Today, Scouting has lost a lot of luster for complicated reasons, and sports are so dominant that I wonder if there is anything comparable for kids today. Maybe music, but that generally is much more expensive than scouting.
- diogenescynic 2y ago
  I don't think any one thing is better than the other. When you're a kid you should just be exploring new areas that might interest you. I tried Boy Scouts but didn't really click with the other groups of kids. Sports were good because they were seasonal and you could try out different things to find out what you were good at. I also think art and music are good for kids to try out. I took guitar lessons as a kid and have good memories and learned a lot.
hattmall 2y ago
There's loads of data that indicate better educational and life outcomes for kids who participate in sports. Of course the high pressure and things like travel ball are bad. The toxic parents that think their kids are going to go pro are awful as well. I think sports should be extremely encouraged if not required, but should be done strictly through schools, but it's a somewhat free country so people can do what they want.
- nytesky 2y ago
  How can those studies be sure they aren't conflating cause and effect? Maybe the traits that often lead to success such as being tall and athletic build help you succeed in your career (most CEOs are taller than average for example). You can be fit and healthy without organized sports.
  - hattmall 2y ago
    Most kids playing sports aren't necessarily tall and athletic, anyone can play, not everything is the varsity football team in a competitive district. Most kids playing sports are just average.
- watwut 2y ago
  Schools are great at making kids dislike sport. They are not so great at making them enjoy it. The kind of sport good for education of kids is the one they like, that causes only low pressure and where you do not feel like complete failure for not being as good as others. You cant get that in school, but you can get it in clubs.
- afiori 2y ago
  And curiously owning a horse decreases your risk of all-cause death
bachmeier 2y ago
> I'll give my unpopular opinion here: eliminate all extracurricular sports in American schools. There is too much money, time, and resources spent on materials, facilities, staff, and programming that only benefit a minority of the student population. > In other parts of the world there are sports clubs to accommodate those kids (and, eventually and more importantly, post-school adults) eager or talented enough to push their limits, and they can do it after school or on weekends. But that is what the author of this article is writing about, expensive travel teams. > The article above fails to mention the connection why a lot of parents subject their kids to year-round training. They're looking for the golden ticket to get their kid a college scholarship or, even less likely, fame and fortune in the NCAA and beyond. That system needs to be dismantled. In my experience, which is not the same as analyzing data, it is almost never the parents pushing their kids to compete at the highest level. It's expensive, it's time consuming, and parents are usually happy when their kid gives it up. It's more like the kid sees what other kids are doing and wants to do the same thing. That puts the parents in a tough position.
cafard 2y ago
My two cents: Americans deeply distrust education. It is naturally hierarchical, which is to say not democratic. It is labor intensive, and resists efforts to make it capital intensive. But sports programs, and jobs programs we tolerate pretty well.