5 ms·

Why the hell aren't the EU and the FTC suing the shit out of them for bundling, telemetry, lock in, gouging, shitty defaults?

by cjk2 2y ago

AlexandrB 2y ago
Great question.
robotnikman 2y ago
I've been wondering this too. The stuff Microsoft has been pulling for the last decade is just ripe for them to go after, yet all you hear is crickets.
Syonyk 2y ago
"It looks like you're considering investigating Microsoft! I've loaded 500 free crystals into Candy Forgecraft Extreme and launched it for you! Just play one level..." I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately.
- cjk2 2y ago
  > I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately. Did someone get a O365 license reduction or a nice dinner out. MS rep used to take me out to dinner in the 90s to get us to use NT+Visual Basic. Free dinner with asshats - worth it. We used Solaris in the end and Sun only gave us hats.
- BoredPositron 2y ago
  The last time, they built a new physical (lol) office and convinced an entire state to abandon their custom Linux setup and switch back to Office 365. Looking at you Bavaria...
  - number6 2y ago
    Holtstein is trying the same now. They just switched to Linux.
deanCommie 2y ago
I think the 90's Antitrust battle was long and painful for everyone, and the hope was that the lessons from the fallout of it from it would carry forward in OS design. But the staff has turned over and nobody remembers it anymore, so here we go again. (see also: The rise of Fascism worldwide as WW2 veterans die off) That said, a Web Browser was/is a disproportionately significant application for the OS, where preferential defaults and bundling raise anti-trust concerns. Not so with a cloud backup option. TBH, Apple has been/remains equally annoying with iCloud integration/upsells on both OSX and iOS. And nobody cares.
- cjk2 2y ago
  Microsoft bundle edge still and it can't be removed, even in windows 11 LTSC. Constant nagging if you don't accept O365/OneDrive unless you eviscerate the machine thoroughly or use a cracked LTSC build. As for Apple, no. Literally I get asked once about stuff and then never again.
spacebanana7 2y ago
Sadly I think the enthusiasm with which the market embraced this behaviour in mobile, console and IoT makes it legally difficult for Microsoft to be punished. How can you penalise Microsoft for pushing OneDrive by default but not penalise Apple for iCloud? Should multiple backup providers be suggested at startup for economic fairness? Or should backups be disabled by default (potentially annoying consumers of mobile devices)? Not saying it’s impossible for a skilled regulator to build a PC specific theory of harm but it’s hard. Potentially might need entirely new legislation.
- djxfade 2y ago
  iCloud Drive, and actually the entire iCloud ecosystem is opt-in
  - amelius 2y ago
    Yes, but the question is how they implemented it. Are there dark patterns, is it all-or-nothing, etc.? Also, with iCloud being at the heart of Apple's ecosystem, a simple bug may very well cause accidental sharing of sensitive data. Even if that never happens, it does not make me sleep better.
    - amluto 2y ago
      Apple’s apps make it pretty clear when something is local and when something is in iCloud. Even for iCloud users, it’s usually an explicit choice per file or object. Photos is the notable exception.
      - amelius 2y ago
        I don't want to worry about exceptions.
        amluto 2y ago
        I’m pretty sure there’s also a very-much-not-fine-print notice about iCloud Photos when you set up a device, and you can easily turn iCloud Photos off. The only part missing is that you can’t enable iCloud Photos but choose, per photo, whether to sync the photo.
ffhhj 2y ago
How will goverments surveil their citizens without these companies?
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
Because people just complain on the internet and don't report these things. The FTC works off of reported incidents. File a report: https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/ https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/
- dschuetz 2y ago
  People are reporting this, but usually via microsoft support pages, so in the end nobody really cares.
freedomben 2y ago
I suspect that is coming. At least MS isn't preventing you from running any third party stuff you want to run.

Why the hell aren't the EU and the FTC suing the shit out of them for bundling, telemetry, lock in, gouging, shitty defaults?

by cjk2 2y ago

Why the hell aren't the EU and the FTC suing the shit out of them for bundling, telemetry, lock in, gouging, shitty defaults?

AlexandrB 2y ago

Great question.

robotnikman 2y ago

I've been wondering this too. The stuff Microsoft has been pulling for the last decade is just ripe for them to go after, yet all you hear is crickets.

Syonyk 2y ago

"It looks like you're considering investigating Microsoft! I've loaded 500 free crystals into Candy Forgecraft Extreme and launched it for you! Just play one level..." I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately.

cjk2 2y ago
> I have no idea why the EU isn't going after Microsoft with a heavy club for all the crap they're pulling lately. Did someone get a O365 license reduction or a nice dinner out. MS rep used to take me out to dinner in the 90s to get us to use NT+Visual Basic. Free dinner with asshats - worth it. We used Solaris in the end and Sun only gave us hats.
BoredPositron 2y ago
The last time, they built a new physical (lol) office and convinced an entire state to abandon their custom Linux setup and switch back to Office 365. Looking at you Bavaria...
- number6 2y ago
  Holtstein is trying the same now. They just switched to Linux.

deanCommie 2y ago

I think the 90's Antitrust battle was long and painful for everyone, and the hope was that the lessons from the fallout of it from it would carry forward in OS design. But the staff has turned over and nobody remembers it anymore, so here we go again. (see also: The rise of Fascism worldwide as WW2 veterans die off) That said, a Web Browser was/is a disproportionately significant application for the OS, where preferential defaults and bundling raise anti-trust concerns. Not so with a cloud backup option. TBH, Apple has been/remains equally annoying with iCloud integration/upsells on both OSX and iOS. And nobody cares.

cjk2 2y ago
Microsoft bundle edge still and it can't be removed, even in windows 11 LTSC. Constant nagging if you don't accept O365/OneDrive unless you eviscerate the machine thoroughly or use a cracked LTSC build. As for Apple, no. Literally I get asked once about stuff and then never again.

spacebanana7 2y ago

Sadly I think the enthusiasm with which the market embraced this behaviour in mobile, console and IoT makes it legally difficult for Microsoft to be punished. How can you penalise Microsoft for pushing OneDrive by default but not penalise Apple for iCloud? Should multiple backup providers be suggested at startup for economic fairness? Or should backups be disabled by default (potentially annoying consumers of mobile devices)? Not saying it’s impossible for a skilled regulator to build a PC specific theory of harm but it’s hard. Potentially might need entirely new legislation.

djxfade 2y ago
iCloud Drive, and actually the entire iCloud ecosystem is opt-in
- amelius 2y ago
  Yes, but the question is how they implemented it. Are there dark patterns, is it all-or-nothing, etc.? Also, with iCloud being at the heart of Apple's ecosystem, a simple bug may very well cause accidental sharing of sensitive data. Even if that never happens, it does not make me sleep better.
  - amluto 2y ago
    Apple’s apps make it pretty clear when something is local and when something is in iCloud. Even for iCloud users, it’s usually an explicit choice per file or object. Photos is the notable exception.
    - amelius 2y ago
      I don't want to worry about exceptions.
      - amluto 2y ago
        I’m pretty sure there’s also a very-much-not-fine-print notice about iCloud Photos when you set up a device, and you can easily turn iCloud Photos off. The only part missing is that you can’t enable iCloud Photos but choose, per photo, whether to sync the photo.

ffhhj 2y ago

How will goverments surveil their citizens without these companies?

_DeadFred_ 2y ago

Because people just complain on the internet and don't report these things. The FTC works off of reported incidents. File a report: https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/ https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/

dschuetz 2y ago
People are reporting this, but usually via microsoft support pages, so in the end nobody really cares.

freedomben 2y ago

I suspect that is coming. At least MS isn't preventing you from running any third party stuff you want to run.