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I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it'

I'm not sure thinking of the robots as "increasing safety" is a useful mindset. They increase the chance of rescue. If you needed one in the first place, it's because you unintentionally neglected safety well before they deployed the robot to you. Anyways.. as an aside.. if it's just about getting flotation devices out to them faster, why not a "life jacket cannon" mounted to the beach? If you really want to make it something to write home about get the guy who was dropping hats on heads the other day to make a robot that drops life jackets on the heads of people flailing about in the water.

MobileVet 2y ago
Take a page from every sports stadium in the country... instead of launching T-shirts, launch a foam vest of some sort. Clearly you have an issue with hitting someone in the head with something hard, but probably the bigger issue is launching something that isn't very dense through the air. Quad copter that flies out seems ideal.
WheatMillington 2y ago
This is a semantic argument, but defining "safety" as mitigation and prevention of harm is valid.
- akira2501 2y ago
  Of course it is, which is why I said "not a useful _mindset_." I'm not arguing the semantics, just suggesting that allowing yourself to use them may alter your behavior in negative ways.
  - MengerSponge 2y ago
    If the pandemic taught us anything (which it really, shockingly, didn't) it's that moral hazard is less of a risk than Chicago School economists would have you think. Introducing mechanisms to keep people safer rarely yields the feared perverse behavior, so just introduce the bit of safety and keep a wary eye out for the perverse behavior.
    - brewdad 2y ago
      Driver behaviors once the risk of being stopped by a police officer went away during the pandemic beg to differ. Many of those misbehaviors continue today as new habits even after enforcement has resumed to varying degrees.
beart 2y ago
This feels a bit like blaming the victim. There are any number of things that can go wrong which may or may not be under your control. Specifically, the Great Lakes are more like seas than lakes. They have rip currents that can unexpectedly get you into trouble.
- akira2501 2y ago
  The robot brings you a flotation device. You should have one of those already. You should be wearing it if you're on the water for exactly the reason you've stated. Almost no one actually does this. I've lived and fished on the lake for years. It's great for recreation. Way too many people do so entirely unprepared and often drastically underestimate the impacts of alcohol out on a boat in the hot sun.
  - WheatMillington 2y ago
    Does the US have regulations around this? Here in New Zealand a boat must carry a life jacket for every person on board, and kids must wear a life jacket at all times. On vessels over 6 metres all people onboard must wear a life jacket at all times, unless the skipper has performed a safety assessment and advises they don't need to (e.g. on a ferry it's extremely unlikely anyone would have to wear a life jacket, but a charter fishing vessel may).
    - gknoy 2y ago
      > Does the US have regulations around this? I would be _very surprised_ if we did not have regulations about this, similar to seat belt laws. But the problem is probably enforcement. Nothing stops people from having a life vest on in port, and then taking them off once they are "away from the nannies" or whatever excuse people use when drinking. I have only been on a boat rarely, but I don't recall seeing any kindof police on jetskis or boats that would go check on whether people had safety equipment on and then ticket them.
    - ben7799 2y ago
      The US has regulations on all of this but they are routinely ignored by people who can't swim but own boats. Small boat owners are required to have the life jackets on board but they can be hidden under the seats of a boat or inside a hatch and that will be OK even when you are inspected by the coast guard. Small children are the only ones required to wear their life jacket. Larger vessels have to have the life jackets but no one wears a life jacket. Most of these vessels the captain will explain where they are but the crew would be required to get them out in an emergency. Most of the small boat owners I've known wouldn't have much chance of retrieving life jackets from fastened compartments on their boat if it flipped and they were thrown from the boat. One of the worst accidents I've seen was a small commercial lobster boat on fire. The crew were all hanging off the back of the boat without their life jackets and had pointed the boat into the harbor. Luckily the coast guard was there to save the day.
sailingparrot 2y ago
There are many reasons why a life jacket cannon is a terrible idea. How do you get perfect accuracy ? People that are drowning can’t swim anymore in many cases, they barely have energy to stay on the surface. So you can’t be off by 10 meters. They also won’t have the energy to put the life jacket while already in the water. And while life jackets properly equipped around your torso make you float correctly, barely resting your arms on a life jacket is not terribly buoyant. You need to account for wind, not just to aim, but also because the life jacket will drift away. And as it happens strong winds are responsible for rip currents and waves which is very often what causes drownings in the first place, so wind is the default environment, not an edge case. Waves and surface currents have a strong chance of carrying away the jacket before the drowning person can get to it. A system that can be course corrected to account for all of those parameters seem the best, its rigid, so will provide buoyancy even when just holding on the device, it’s also big enough to support more than one person, many drowning events involve more than one person (often someone that was initially trying to help end up getting themselves in trouble).
- aftbit 2y ago
  How about a flying drone that drops an inflatable from a few meters above the struggling swimmer?
  - itishappy 2y ago
    How about using a cheap floating platform? One with a more efficient operating mode, larger payload capacity, less moving parts, safe failure modes...
    - Spivak 2y ago
      Honestly the drone probably wins in all those categories today and the drone doesn't have the problem of needing to navigate choppy water, has a bird's eye view, and can't accidentally slam into the swimmer on a bad wave. And you can buy them off the shelf, hell you can buy a drone right now today that can physically lift the person out of the ocean.
  - 2y ago
itishappy 2y ago
T-shirts and hats don't fly too straight. Robot paddleboards can steer.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

MobileVet 2y ago

Take a page from every sports stadium in the country... instead of launching T-shirts, launch a foam vest of some sort. Clearly you have an issue with hitting someone in the head with something hard, but probably the bigger issue is launching something that isn't very dense through the air. Quad copter that flies out seems ideal.

WheatMillington 2y ago

This is a semantic argument, but defining "safety" as mitigation and prevention of harm is valid.

akira2501 2y ago
Of course it is, which is why I said "not a useful _mindset_." I'm not arguing the semantics, just suggesting that allowing yourself to use them may alter your behavior in negative ways.
- MengerSponge 2y ago
  If the pandemic taught us anything (which it really, shockingly, didn't) it's that moral hazard is less of a risk than Chicago School economists would have you think. Introducing mechanisms to keep people safer rarely yields the feared perverse behavior, so just introduce the bit of safety and keep a wary eye out for the perverse behavior.
  - brewdad 2y ago
    Driver behaviors once the risk of being stopped by a police officer went away during the pandemic beg to differ. Many of those misbehaviors continue today as new habits even after enforcement has resumed to varying degrees.

beart 2y ago

This feels a bit like blaming the victim. There are any number of things that can go wrong which may or may not be under your control. Specifically, the Great Lakes are more like seas than lakes. They have rip currents that can unexpectedly get you into trouble.

akira2501 2y ago
The robot brings you a flotation device. You should have one of those already. You should be wearing it if you're on the water for exactly the reason you've stated. Almost no one actually does this. I've lived and fished on the lake for years. It's great for recreation. Way too many people do so entirely unprepared and often drastically underestimate the impacts of alcohol out on a boat in the hot sun.
- WheatMillington 2y ago
  Does the US have regulations around this? Here in New Zealand a boat must carry a life jacket for every person on board, and kids must wear a life jacket at all times. On vessels over 6 metres all people onboard must wear a life jacket at all times, unless the skipper has performed a safety assessment and advises they don't need to (e.g. on a ferry it's extremely unlikely anyone would have to wear a life jacket, but a charter fishing vessel may).
  - gknoy 2y ago
    > Does the US have regulations around this? I would be _very surprised_ if we did not have regulations about this, similar to seat belt laws. But the problem is probably enforcement. Nothing stops people from having a life vest on in port, and then taking them off once they are "away from the nannies" or whatever excuse people use when drinking. I have only been on a boat rarely, but I don't recall seeing any kindof police on jetskis or boats that would go check on whether people had safety equipment on and then ticket them.
  - ben7799 2y ago
    The US has regulations on all of this but they are routinely ignored by people who can't swim but own boats. Small boat owners are required to have the life jackets on board but they can be hidden under the seats of a boat or inside a hatch and that will be OK even when you are inspected by the coast guard. Small children are the only ones required to wear their life jacket. Larger vessels have to have the life jackets but no one wears a life jacket. Most of these vessels the captain will explain where they are but the crew would be required to get them out in an emergency. Most of the small boat owners I've known wouldn't have much chance of retrieving life jackets from fastened compartments on their boat if it flipped and they were thrown from the boat. One of the worst accidents I've seen was a small commercial lobster boat on fire. The crew were all hanging off the back of the boat without their life jackets and had pointed the boat into the harbor. Luckily the coast guard was there to save the day.

sailingparrot 2y ago

There are many reasons why a life jacket cannon is a terrible idea. How do you get perfect accuracy ? People that are drowning can’t swim anymore in many cases, they barely have energy to stay on the surface. So you can’t be off by 10 meters. They also won’t have the energy to put the life jacket while already in the water. And while life jackets properly equipped around your torso make you float correctly, barely resting your arms on a life jacket is not terribly buoyant. You need to account for wind, not just to aim, but also because the life jacket will drift away. And as it happens strong winds are responsible for rip currents and waves which is very often what causes drownings in the first place, so wind is the default environment, not an edge case. Waves and surface currents have a strong chance of carrying away the jacket before the drowning person can get to it. A system that can be course corrected to account for all of those parameters seem the best, its rigid, so will provide buoyancy even when just holding on the device, it’s also big enough to support more than one person, many drowning events involve more than one person (often someone that was initially trying to help end up getting themselves in trouble).

aftbit 2y ago
How about a flying drone that drops an inflatable from a few meters above the struggling swimmer?
- itishappy 2y ago
  How about using a cheap floating platform? One with a more efficient operating mode, larger payload capacity, less moving parts, safe failure modes...
  - Spivak 2y ago
    Honestly the drone probably wins in all those categories today and the drone doesn't have the problem of needing to navigate choppy water, has a bird's eye view, and can't accidentally slam into the swimmer on a bad wave. And you can buy them off the shelf, hell you can buy a drone right now today that can physically lift the person out of the ocean.
- 2y ago

itishappy 2y ago

T-shirts and hats don't fly too straight. Robot paddleboards can steer.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]