3 ms·

> Most who grew up to become geniuses, pre-1900, were kept apart from same age peers and raised at home, by tutors or parents Pretty much all kids are a lot sm

by nico 2y ago

> Most who grew up to become geniuses, pre-1900, were kept apart from same age peers and raised at home, by tutors or parents Pretty much all kids are a lot smarter than we acknowledge Lazlo Polgar believed geniuses are made, not born, and raised his daughters to become chess grandmasters https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r The school system is more of an industrial childcare operation for working parents, than an actual education system for the kids It’s also easy to criticize, and it is very hard for parents to provide good resources and enough attention for the kids to fully develop their potential

leetrout 2y ago
> The school system is more of an industrial childcare operation for working parents, than an actual education system for the kids Bingo. And, as the spouse of a teacher, there's not a lot of hope of that changing any time soon. The pay would have to change... the people currently working would have to be dismissed or, for those introspective and motivated, retrained... never going to happen. And generally focused on creating followers not thinkers. I really enjoyed "The Coddling of the American Mind" https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-cod... https://www.thecoddling.com/ https://www.thecoddling.com/
- mtillman 2y ago
  Easy evidence is how they enter school loving books and leave school dreading books most of the time. Another point is how school times start just before work hours for parents. Finally, they pump the kids full of high sugar substances which actually damage cognitive functions over time. Thankfully, minimally incentivized people are there to keep them inline.../s
- unclebucknasty 2y ago
  I agree that the school system is in need of help. And, there's the saying that it was intended to train workers for the machine, which is at least a minor upgrade from "industrial childcare". But, then is it really that bad? I mean, as a nation, we've managed to make it quite a way and lead the world in many categories. And, here we are on HN, cogently observing the issues from the "outside". Yet, I'd wager most of us are products of the public school system. How did so many manage to reach escape velocity?
  - leetrout 2y ago
    Part of this is touched on in "Coddling". Each generation is getting a different (worse?) experience as they are maturing several years later than previous generations. It's not just "public school bad"... quiet a lot of factors in play, especially at the collegiate level. But lots of people disagree with the article and the book. But I found it made compelling, accurate arguments.
    - unclebucknasty 2y ago
      I do agree about the maturation rate vs past times. But, I would chalk this up to a number of other factors which have changed and have had a more outsized impact than schools. For one, parenting is far different, with parents now more integrally involved in their childrens' day to day lives. Kids are not encouraged to be independent, nor do they have as much opportunity to make decisions for themselves. I would imagine "Coddling" speaks to that as well. But, that really has very little to do with schools.
  - _vdye 2y ago
    Won't speak of others on HN, but for me, absolutely, 100%, succeeded _despite_ the public education system (as evidenced by ~99% of my peers not "making it" out from a dark place). And as someone self-medicating, and using their own money to seek psychologists, therapy, and help for the damage caused by it ~20 years later still, it is my value statement that it is absolutely 100% utterly, irredeemably horrible. If people really cared about their children, the public education system, as a whole system, would be terminated. They don't.
    - llamaimperative 2y ago
      Or people had a different experience from yours. Is that really so unbelievable that it’s better to think everyone is as traumatized as you but they literally just don’t care about their children? Sorry but that’s completely absurd.
    - unclebucknasty 2y ago
      If a school has traumatized 99% of its students (or some co-hort within its student population), then there probably needs to be an investigation. But, I don't think that's most people's experience.
hobs 2y ago
Yeah, it was clear they were training us for an industrial work ethic with 40 minute periods with bells moving us from place to place, regimented bathroom and recreational activity, and generally a complete disinterest in learning, just do the homework kid, we don't care and we wont call on you.
PartiallyTyped 2y ago
My early childhood is very similar to that of some Field medalists.. and then I went to school and the problems began.. between bullying, isolation, and a host of other issues, adult me feels the burden of "potential". I don't blame my parents for it, they really didn't have much of a choice in the matter as we were too poor for private schools and homeschooling isn't a thing where I come from.
cma 2y ago
Norbert Weiner was explicitly raised by his father to be a prodigy as well: https://www.amazon.com/Norbert-Wiener_A-Life-Cybernetics-Mathematician/dp/0262535440 https://www.amazon.com/Norbert-Wiener_A-Life-Cybernetics-Mat...

by nico 2y ago

leetrout 2y ago

> The school system is more of an industrial childcare operation for working parents, than an actual education system for the kids Bingo. And, as the spouse of a teacher, there's not a lot of hope of that changing any time soon. The pay would have to change... the people currently working would have to be dismissed or, for those introspective and motivated, retrained... never going to happen. And generally focused on creating followers not thinkers. I really enjoyed "The Coddling of the American Mind" https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-cod... https://www.thecoddling.com/ https://www.thecoddling.com/

mtillman 2y ago
Easy evidence is how they enter school loving books and leave school dreading books most of the time. Another point is how school times start just before work hours for parents. Finally, they pump the kids full of high sugar substances which actually damage cognitive functions over time. Thankfully, minimally incentivized people are there to keep them inline.../s
unclebucknasty 2y ago
I agree that the school system is in need of help. And, there's the saying that it was intended to train workers for the machine, which is at least a minor upgrade from "industrial childcare". But, then is it really that bad? I mean, as a nation, we've managed to make it quite a way and lead the world in many categories. And, here we are on HN, cogently observing the issues from the "outside". Yet, I'd wager most of us are products of the public school system. How did so many manage to reach escape velocity?
- leetrout 2y ago
  Part of this is touched on in "Coddling". Each generation is getting a different (worse?) experience as they are maturing several years later than previous generations. It's not just "public school bad"... quiet a lot of factors in play, especially at the collegiate level. But lots of people disagree with the article and the book. But I found it made compelling, accurate arguments.
  - unclebucknasty 2y ago
    I do agree about the maturation rate vs past times. But, I would chalk this up to a number of other factors which have changed and have had a more outsized impact than schools. For one, parenting is far different, with parents now more integrally involved in their childrens' day to day lives. Kids are not encouraged to be independent, nor do they have as much opportunity to make decisions for themselves. I would imagine "Coddling" speaks to that as well. But, that really has very little to do with schools.
- _vdye 2y ago
  Won't speak of others on HN, but for me, absolutely, 100%, succeeded _despite_ the public education system (as evidenced by ~99% of my peers not "making it" out from a dark place). And as someone self-medicating, and using their own money to seek psychologists, therapy, and help for the damage caused by it ~20 years later still, it is my value statement that it is absolutely 100% utterly, irredeemably horrible. If people really cared about their children, the public education system, as a whole system, would be terminated. They don't.
  - llamaimperative 2y ago
    Or people had a different experience from yours. Is that really so unbelievable that it’s better to think everyone is as traumatized as you but they literally just don’t care about their children? Sorry but that’s completely absurd.
  - unclebucknasty 2y ago
    If a school has traumatized 99% of its students (or some co-hort within its student population), then there probably needs to be an investigation. But, I don't think that's most people's experience.

hobs 2y ago

Yeah, it was clear they were training us for an industrial work ethic with 40 minute periods with bells moving us from place to place, regimented bathroom and recreational activity, and generally a complete disinterest in learning, just do the homework kid, we don't care and we wont call on you.

PartiallyTyped 2y ago

My early childhood is very similar to that of some Field medalists.. and then I went to school and the problems began.. between bullying, isolation, and a host of other issues, adult me feels the burden of "potential". I don't blame my parents for it, they really didn't have much of a choice in the matter as we were too poor for private schools and homeschooling isn't a thing where I come from.

cma 2y ago

Norbert Weiner was explicitly raised by his father to be a prodigy as well: https://www.amazon.com/Norbert-Wiener_A-Life-Cybernetics-Mathematician/dp/0262535440 https://www.amazon.com/Norbert-Wiener_A-Life-Cybernetics-Mat...