4 ms·

Is that the fault of the system, or the fault of the tourists for visiting a new place and not reading up on local customs?

varenc 2y ago
I always read up on how the local transit system works when I visit a new place. But that’s never adequately prepared me to smoothly use a public bus like a local would the very first time. Some transit systems are just inherently more confusing than others. It doesn’t matter to the locals who know the quirks, but that doesn’t mean something can’t be improved. NYC has a great subway system, but I find the signage and general wayfinding quite lacking. Tokyo’s system is on a similar level of complexity but has excellent wayfinding and is generally much easier for a tourist to use.
Aeolun 2y ago
“Make the damn train work” is not a local custom. Aside from that the UK rail system is so complicated and expensive you’d expect a manned gate at every station at the least. £150 from London to Leeds?! I can fly halfway across Europe for less…
- seabass-labrax 2y ago
  £165.90, to be precise (anytime single). Or, if you travel late-morning to early-afternoon, £70.20 (super off-peak single). By booking weeks or months in advance, you can travel for as little as £22.50 (advance single). The unofficial BR Fares[1] website does a lot to untangle the complexity, although it can only do so much to mitigate the expense. [1]: https://www.brfares.com/ https://www.brfares.com/
  - ghaff 2y ago
    Making purchases ahead varies quite a bit across Europe. The UK seems to fall pretty hard on the you really should buy well in advance side or you're going to pay through the nose. I used to work with someone who, even on an expense account, would roll their eyes if someone wanted them to do a last minute trip to London.
    - seabass-labrax 2y ago
      Indeed! Travelling last-minute, you could even be 'quids in' by popping over to the continent for an afternoon so that you'd be eligible for an Interrail ticket: 4-Day Interrail Global Pass, Adult passenger: €283 Eurostar seat reservation (any destination) x2: €060 = €340 (~£288) Nearly fifty pounds less than the price of two Leeds <-> London Anytime Single fares, £331.80! And since hotel rooms in London aren't cheap either, you might even save money by staying the night in Lille rather than London. Kings Cross is part of the same station complex as the Eurostar departures at St. Pancras, so you would save money, spend less than three additional hours travelling and not even risk getting rained on. This is Hacker News, but even still, I feel kind of icky suggesting a 500-kilometre detour to save money on a journey between two British cities no further than that distance from each other. How I wish we could just have a British version of the Austrian 'climate ticket' and leave all of our inscrutable rail fares behind us!
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    I’m used to traveling the same distance for around £40 regardless of the time I book (shinkansen). I guess it’s too bad I can’t save money on booking in advance, but on the other hand, I can easily jump on the train at any point of the day without sticker shock.
Ekaros 2y ago
Poor UI is poor UI. Recently visited system which supports contactless payment. So the terminal is there. And it has arrow to left with logo of contactless payment. Logically first thought is that you just swipe card from right to left over it right? No keeps failing, is something wrong with my card? Also other card does not work... In the end assholes designing it hid the payment terminal in such way that you can't see it from usual angle of use.. Amazingly hostile user design for those that rarely use that transport system...
bregma 2y ago
I recently visited Paris. I read up and watched videos on how to use the metro. They didn't really cover many of the important local customs: I let people off the train before trying to cram in and I held the exit gates open on my way out of a station so they didn't slam in the next person's face. I must have stuck out as a tourist. The "act like a local" public info available is never sufficient.
ghaff 2y ago
Ah, yes. The good old "It's the user's fault for holding it wrong."
- oopsallmagic 2y ago
  [dead]
bluGill 2y ago
I'm into transit and so I did my best to understand the system last time I went someplace - and it still took me a few minutes to figure out what I needed to do last time I went to a new city. And the tourists who didn't think to look this up in front of me took even longer. Nothing was hard, but when you don't know exactly what you need it takes some time to figure that out. The above assumes you know you will be there and so can look things up. I wasn't planning to leave the airport in one city so I didn't look up what locals do - then weather made me miss the connection and I was stuck in a city for a day. Locals going to a new part of their own city often have the same problems trying to read the map and time tables. They are faster than tourists, but still need extra time because they don't know what is going on.

varenc 2y ago

I always read up on how the local transit system works when I visit a new place. But that’s never adequately prepared me to smoothly use a public bus like a local would the very first time. Some transit systems are just inherently more confusing than others. It doesn’t matter to the locals who know the quirks, but that doesn’t mean something can’t be improved. NYC has a great subway system, but I find the signage and general wayfinding quite lacking. Tokyo’s system is on a similar level of complexity but has excellent wayfinding and is generally much easier for a tourist to use.

Aeolun 2y ago

“Make the damn train work” is not a local custom. Aside from that the UK rail system is so complicated and expensive you’d expect a manned gate at every station at the least. £150 from London to Leeds?! I can fly halfway across Europe for less…

seabass-labrax 2y ago
£165.90, to be precise (anytime single). Or, if you travel late-morning to early-afternoon, £70.20 (super off-peak single). By booking weeks or months in advance, you can travel for as little as £22.50 (advance single). The unofficial BR Fares[1] website does a lot to untangle the complexity, although it can only do so much to mitigate the expense. [1]: https://www.brfares.com/ https://www.brfares.com/
- ghaff 2y ago
  Making purchases ahead varies quite a bit across Europe. The UK seems to fall pretty hard on the you really should buy well in advance side or you're going to pay through the nose. I used to work with someone who, even on an expense account, would roll their eyes if someone wanted them to do a last minute trip to London.
  - seabass-labrax 2y ago
    Indeed! Travelling last-minute, you could even be 'quids in' by popping over to the continent for an afternoon so that you'd be eligible for an Interrail ticket: 4-Day Interrail Global Pass, Adult passenger: €283 Eurostar seat reservation (any destination) x2: €060 = €340 (~£288) Nearly fifty pounds less than the price of two Leeds <-> London Anytime Single fares, £331.80! And since hotel rooms in London aren't cheap either, you might even save money by staying the night in Lille rather than London. Kings Cross is part of the same station complex as the Eurostar departures at St. Pancras, so you would save money, spend less than three additional hours travelling and not even risk getting rained on. This is Hacker News, but even still, I feel kind of icky suggesting a 500-kilometre detour to save money on a journey between two British cities no further than that distance from each other. How I wish we could just have a British version of the Austrian 'climate ticket' and leave all of our inscrutable rail fares behind us!
- Aeolun 2y ago
  I’m used to traveling the same distance for around £40 regardless of the time I book (shinkansen). I guess it’s too bad I can’t save money on booking in advance, but on the other hand, I can easily jump on the train at any point of the day without sticker shock.

Ekaros 2y ago

Poor UI is poor UI. Recently visited system which supports contactless payment. So the terminal is there. And it has arrow to left with logo of contactless payment. Logically first thought is that you just swipe card from right to left over it right? No keeps failing, is something wrong with my card? Also other card does not work... In the end assholes designing it hid the payment terminal in such way that you can't see it from usual angle of use.. Amazingly hostile user design for those that rarely use that transport system...

bregma 2y ago

I recently visited Paris. I read up and watched videos on how to use the metro. They didn't really cover many of the important local customs: I let people off the train before trying to cram in and I held the exit gates open on my way out of a station so they didn't slam in the next person's face. I must have stuck out as a tourist. The "act like a local" public info available is never sufficient.

ghaff 2y ago

Ah, yes. The good old "It's the user's fault for holding it wrong."

oopsallmagic 2y ago
[dead]

bluGill 2y ago

I'm into transit and so I did my best to understand the system last time I went someplace - and it still took me a few minutes to figure out what I needed to do last time I went to a new city. And the tourists who didn't think to look this up in front of me took even longer. Nothing was hard, but when you don't know exactly what you need it takes some time to figure that out. The above assumes you know you will be there and so can look things up. I wasn't planning to leave the airport in one city so I didn't look up what locals do - then weather made me miss the connection and I was stuck in a city for a day. Locals going to a new part of their own city often have the same problems trying to read the map and time tables. They are faster than tourists, but still need extra time because they don't know what is going on.