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> This isn't the first time I've faced such an issue, whenever this happens, I lose all my subscribers That does not strike me as believable - do you really no

by nojs 2y ago

> This isn't the first time I've faced such an issue, whenever this happens, I lose all my subscribers That does not strike me as believable - do you really not have the list elsewhere, and does every provider who shuts down not give you the option to get your list out?

pstrateman 2y ago
That actually sounds very likely. I've never had an email delivery company return any communication at all once they have decided you're bad. (0% spam report rate, 0.01% bounce rate)
- nativeit 2y ago
  I think you’re referring to a different event (having an account suspended or banned) than the parent comment, who’s questioning the notion that one wouldn’t have a subscriber list in a CSV or Google Sheet outside of the account, and/or in the event that a service closes up shop, that they would not extend an effort to allow users to export their data.
  - pstrateman 2y ago
    It's a general comment on the professionalism of the bulk email delivery industry, namely there is none. Don't expect them to support a free service they decided to shutdown in anyway.
    - dmje 2y ago
      That's still not answering the question though. I don't know of any bulk email provider who doesn't allow you to export and import your lists via an open format like csv.
    - iamacyborg 2y ago
      > It's a general comment on the professionalism of the bulk email delivery industry, namely there is none. I strongly disagree. I’ve had the chance to speak with numerous deliverability folks who work at esp’s over the years and they’ve all for the most part been incredibly professional and helpful.
thibaut_barrere 2y ago
In the case of TinyLetter, this is what happened to me: I didn't receive any email notifications before the shutdown (I verified multiple times). I reached out to Mailchimp and they deleted everything (https://x.com/thibaut_barrere/status/1771931157564727468 https://x.com/thibaut_barrere/status/1771931157564727468). Am I responsible for backups ultimately? Absolutely. Will I trust Mailchimp in the future for my own projects? Not very likely.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 2y ago
  Wonder if they really don’t have any retention at all. Maybe it would magically become available if they got a letter from a lawyer.
  - thibaut_barrere 2y ago
    Yes, some form of organisational soft-delete is more than likely. > We're afraid the TinyLetter data is no longer available could perfectly mean: the backups we keep for one year are encrypted in case of legal trouble, but we require a legal action internally before them to be worth reaching out.
- pembrook 2y ago
  It sounds like you weren’t sending very frequently, if you logged in anytime over those 5 months there was a banner letting you know it was getting shut down. If it makes you feel better, deliverability people will tell you a list that’s been sitting with no sends for a year or more quickly becomes worthless due to list rot (abandoned emails, expired domains, job switchers, people who forgot you exist and will mark spam/unsub, etc). When you send to an old untouched list, it can tank your domain rep in Gmail since the algo sees tons of bounces/unsubscribes/negative signals. They basically assume you’re a spammer. So it probably would have been a PITA to warm that list again anyways. It’s shitty that gmail incentivizes bulk senders to be annoying and send a lot, but it is what it is.

by nojs 2y ago

pstrateman 2y ago

That actually sounds very likely. I've never had an email delivery company return any communication at all once they have decided you're bad. (0% spam report rate, 0.01% bounce rate)

nativeit 2y ago
I think you’re referring to a different event (having an account suspended or banned) than the parent comment, who’s questioning the notion that one wouldn’t have a subscriber list in a CSV or Google Sheet outside of the account, and/or in the event that a service closes up shop, that they would not extend an effort to allow users to export their data.
- pstrateman 2y ago
  It's a general comment on the professionalism of the bulk email delivery industry, namely there is none. Don't expect them to support a free service they decided to shutdown in anyway.
  - dmje 2y ago
    That's still not answering the question though. I don't know of any bulk email provider who doesn't allow you to export and import your lists via an open format like csv.
  - iamacyborg 2y ago
    > It's a general comment on the professionalism of the bulk email delivery industry, namely there is none. I strongly disagree. I’ve had the chance to speak with numerous deliverability folks who work at esp’s over the years and they’ve all for the most part been incredibly professional and helpful.

thibaut_barrere 2y ago

In the case of TinyLetter, this is what happened to me: I didn't receive any email notifications before the shutdown (I verified multiple times). I reached out to Mailchimp and they deleted everything (https://x.com/thibaut_barrere/status/1771931157564727468 https://x.com/thibaut_barrere/status/1771931157564727468). Am I responsible for backups ultimately? Absolutely. Will I trust Mailchimp in the future for my own projects? Not very likely.

fshbbdssbbgdd 2y ago
Wonder if they really don’t have any retention at all. Maybe it would magically become available if they got a letter from a lawyer.
- thibaut_barrere 2y ago
  Yes, some form of organisational soft-delete is more than likely. > We're afraid the TinyLetter data is no longer available could perfectly mean: the backups we keep for one year are encrypted in case of legal trouble, but we require a legal action internally before them to be worth reaching out.
pembrook 2y ago
It sounds like you weren’t sending very frequently, if you logged in anytime over those 5 months there was a banner letting you know it was getting shut down. If it makes you feel better, deliverability people will tell you a list that’s been sitting with no sends for a year or more quickly becomes worthless due to list rot (abandoned emails, expired domains, job switchers, people who forgot you exist and will mark spam/unsub, etc). When you send to an old untouched list, it can tank your domain rep in Gmail since the algo sees tons of bounces/unsubscribes/negative signals. They basically assume you’re a spammer. So it probably would have been a PITA to warm that list again anyways. It’s shitty that gmail incentivizes bulk senders to be annoying and send a lot, but it is what it is.