3 ms·

There's this odd strain of thought that there's some general thing that will pop for hucksters and the unwashed masses, who are sheep led along by huckster wolv

There's this odd strain of thought that there's some general thing that will pop for hucksters and the unwashed masses, who are sheep led along by huckster wolves who won't admit LLMs aint ???, because they're profiting off it It's frustrating because it's infantalizing, it derails the potential of an interesting technical discussion (ex. Here, diffusion), and it misses the mark substantially. At the end of the day, it's useful in a thousand ways day to day, and the vast majority of people feel this way. The only people I see vehemently arguing the opposite seem to assume only things with 0 error rate are useful or are upset about money in some form. But is that really it? I'm all ears. I'm on a 5 hour flight. I'm genuinely unclear on whats going on that leads people to take this absolutist position that they're waiting for ??? to admit ??? about LLMs. Yes, the prose machine didnt nail circuit design, that doesn't mean whatever They you're imagining needs to give up and accept ???

ben_w 2y ago
> But is that really it? I'm all ears. I'm on a 5 hour flight. I'm genuinely unclear on whats going on that leads people to take this absolutist position that they're waiting for ??? to admit ??? about LLMs. Irony: humans think in very black-and-white terms, one could even say boolean; conversely LLMs display subtly and nuance. When I was a kid, repeats of Trek had Spock and Kirk defeating robots with the liar's paradox, yet today it seems like humans are the ones who are broken by it while the machines are just going "I understood that reference!"
- refulgentis 2y ago
  Excellent point, it really is what it comes down to. There's people getting hoodwinked and people hoodwinking and then me, the one who sees them for what they are.
- goatlover 2y ago
  And yet we still don’t have Data or the Holographic Doctor.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    You're demonstrating my point :) When we get to that level, we're all out of work. In the meantime, LLMs are already basically as good as the scriptwriters made the TNG-VOY era starship computers act.
shermantanktop 2y ago
So what should we make of the presence of actual hucksters and actual senior execs who are acting like credulous sheep? I see this every day in my world. At the same time I do appreciate the actual performance and potential future promise of this tech. I have to remind myself that the wolf and sheep show is a side attraction, but for some people it’s clearly the main attraction.
- wruza 2y ago
  Why should we even? The problem with everything today is not only that it’s hype-centric, but that that carries away those who were otherwise reasonable. AI isn’t any special in this regard, it’s just “crypto” of this decade. I see this trend everywhere, in tech, socio, markets. Everything is way too fake, screamy and blown out of proportion.
- refulgentis 2y ago
  The wolves/sheep thing was to indicate how moralizing and infantalizing serves as a substitute for actually explaining what the problem is, because surely, it's not that the prose machine isn't doing circuit design. I'm sure you see it, I'd just love for someone to pause their internal passion play long enough to explain what they're seeing. Because I refuse to infantalize, I refuse to believe it's just grumbling because its not 100% accurate 100% of the time, and doesn't do 100% of everything.
  - shermantanktop 2y ago
    I am literally right now explaining to a senior exec why some PR hype numbers about developer productivity from genAI are not comparable to internal numbers, because he is hoping to say to his bosses that we’re doing better than others. This is a smart, accomplished person, but he can read the tea leaves. The problem with hype is that it can become a pathological form of social proof.
    - anoncareer0212 2y ago
      I see, I'm sorry that's happening :/ I was lucky enough to transition from college dropout waiter to tech startup on the back of the iPad, 6 years in, sold it and ended up at still-good 2016 Google. Left in 2023 because of some absolutely mindnumbingly banal-ly evil middle management. I'm honestly worried about myself because I cannot. stand. that. crap., Google was relatively okay, and doubt I could ever work for someone else again. it was s t u n n i n g to see how easily people slip into confirmation bias when it involves pay / looking good. fwiw if someone's really into Google minutae: I'm not so sure it is relatively okay anymore, it's kinda freaky how many posts there are on Blind along the lines of "wow I left X for here, assumed i'd at least be okay, but I am deeply unhappy. its much worse than average-white-collar job I left"

ben_w 2y ago

> But is that really it? I'm all ears. I'm on a 5 hour flight. I'm genuinely unclear on whats going on that leads people to take this absolutist position that they're waiting for ??? to admit ??? about LLMs. Irony: humans think in very black-and-white terms, one could even say boolean; conversely LLMs display subtly and nuance. When I was a kid, repeats of Trek had Spock and Kirk defeating robots with the liar's paradox, yet today it seems like humans are the ones who are broken by it while the machines are just going "I understood that reference!"

refulgentis 2y ago
Excellent point, it really is what it comes down to. There's people getting hoodwinked and people hoodwinking and then me, the one who sees them for what they are.
goatlover 2y ago
And yet we still don’t have Data or the Holographic Doctor.
- ben_w 2y ago
  You're demonstrating my point :) When we get to that level, we're all out of work. In the meantime, LLMs are already basically as good as the scriptwriters made the TNG-VOY era starship computers act.

shermantanktop 2y ago

So what should we make of the presence of actual hucksters and actual senior execs who are acting like credulous sheep? I see this every day in my world. At the same time I do appreciate the actual performance and potential future promise of this tech. I have to remind myself that the wolf and sheep show is a side attraction, but for some people it’s clearly the main attraction.

wruza 2y ago
Why should we even? The problem with everything today is not only that it’s hype-centric, but that that carries away those who were otherwise reasonable. AI isn’t any special in this regard, it’s just “crypto” of this decade. I see this trend everywhere, in tech, socio, markets. Everything is way too fake, screamy and blown out of proportion.
refulgentis 2y ago
The wolves/sheep thing was to indicate how moralizing and infantalizing serves as a substitute for actually explaining what the problem is, because surely, it's not that the prose machine isn't doing circuit design. I'm sure you see it, I'd just love for someone to pause their internal passion play long enough to explain what they're seeing. Because I refuse to infantalize, I refuse to believe it's just grumbling because its not 100% accurate 100% of the time, and doesn't do 100% of everything.
- shermantanktop 2y ago
  I am literally right now explaining to a senior exec why some PR hype numbers about developer productivity from genAI are not comparable to internal numbers, because he is hoping to say to his bosses that we’re doing better than others. This is a smart, accomplished person, but he can read the tea leaves. The problem with hype is that it can become a pathological form of social proof.
  - anoncareer0212 2y ago
    I see, I'm sorry that's happening :/ I was lucky enough to transition from college dropout waiter to tech startup on the back of the iPad, 6 years in, sold it and ended up at still-good 2016 Google. Left in 2023 because of some absolutely mindnumbingly banal-ly evil middle management. I'm honestly worried about myself because I cannot. stand. that. crap., Google was relatively okay, and doubt I could ever work for someone else again. it was s t u n n i n g to see how easily people slip into confirmation bias when it involves pay / looking good. fwiw if someone's really into Google minutae: I'm not so sure it is relatively okay anymore, it's kinda freaky how many posts there are on Blind along the lines of "wow I left X for here, assumed i'd at least be okay, but I am deeply unhappy. its much worse than average-white-collar job I left"