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If you have ever worked in no-tech IT sectors, such as financial institutions, you'll notice that the overal level of knowledge, even with senior developers, is

If you have ever worked in no-tech IT sectors, such as financial institutions, you'll notice that the overal level of knowledge, even with senior developers, is limited, which makes someone who is just'good'very quickly a 10x developer. But it's not the 10x developer that is super good here, it's the other team members, who are just utter shit

znpy 2y ago
Just to share somewhat of a "corollary" to this: if you get into one of such institutions, chances are there already is a "10x developer" and chances are those environments are the kind of environments where a few people (or maybe a single person) can monopolize the decision making process (because they are regarded as the 10x developer). So think twice about pursuing such environments: very often it's not the other team members that are utter shit... Is that the "10x engineer" is making that work environment toxic and not worth staying for other "10x engineer" (but also for "15x engineers" and "35x engineers" who only lack the context about that specific domain). So the logic is actually inverse: those environments very often will only retain a manipulative/toxic/narcissistic "10x engineer" and a bunch of people that are okay with doing whatever and getting the paycheck at the end of the month (and get, maybe wrongly, referred to as "utter shits"). Don't ask me how i know.
- wetpaws 2y ago
  [dead]
- mbsa_cs 2y ago
  This is making me reflect about my current work. Prior to reading this I used to think that our tech lead just happened to have the best ideas but now I’m just not sure anymore. Do they have the best ideas or did they master the politics necessary to push their ideas up the stack and everybody else doesn't care enough? I wonder…
  - znpy 2y ago
    > Do they have the best ideas or did they master the politics necessary to push their ideas up the stack and everybody else doesn't care enough? Exactly: I had a very similar experience in my previous work. A single guy was super-effective at pushing the technology he was strong in, and preventing anything else from reaching even development environment. He was effectively a 10x because no other colleague was given an actual chance of shining.
- sjeneenee 2y ago
  Interesting how developers who are just better than the average Joe instantly get labeled a narcesist
  - cafard 2y ago
    Considering how hypothetical all this discussion is, you seem to be overstating the matter.
  - horns4lyfe 2y ago
    Only if they spend a lot of time talking about how bad everyone else is, which seems to be common on hn.
- financltravsty 2y ago
  Corollary to this: if you find that there is one engineer monopolizing the entire decision-making process, perhaps it's because everyone else is utter shit, and said engineer is tired of having to deal with the insanity of maintaining non-sense thought up by mercurial incompetents without a semblance of technical ability? Perhaps these "toxic behaviors" are a coping strategy to deal with an organization that is woefully unskilled compared to said engineer? Perhaps the only way to necessitate one's career growth in such places is to wrangle what one would consider are actual toddlers, who simply do not care at all about the tech (incredibly common in non-tech orgs). Perhaps said engineer would be happy to share the glory and fun work, if you made friends, demonstrated competency and initiative, and learned to play the (fucking) game?
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    Before anyone dismisses this for tone, this is remarkably realistic. This is/was me. Working on that. I was the one to call the shots. Joined years ago, took a thing from lab to a real household product, ran out of steam, then left once the fiefdoms started settling in. I noticed the impact it had both personally and externally, leaving was an act of care for everyone. I'm still burned out. I joined a new place and made an ass out of myself in the last couple months, because of this coping mechanism. I'm preconditioned to throw elbows. Fortunately most around me seem to have realized and allowed me room to learn to be human again. I appreciate the healthier dynamics. I'm just trying to learn to participate again in good faith. It was taken from me. The last place was so dysfunctional that me, the effective/favored SRE, was leading literally by consequence - in several senses.
  - znpy 2y ago
    > perhaps it's because everyone else is utter shit This is entirely never true, my dude/dudette. It literally never happens that only a single person is smart and everybody else is an idiot. If one thinks that does happen in real life then that person is either a teenager with self-esteem issues or an adult that has seen too many tv series. But frankly my intuition tells me some people will be incapable of understanding that, so i'll be wasting my words for those that can understand it in hope they can recognize the pattern and leave toxic work environments and people as soon as they can. Peace.
- _DeadFred_ 2y ago
  I was great in a crisis in dev/IT, and always said 'sure, we can do that', which got me to the top. You know who you want at the top? Not the person that thrives on crisis, but the person that hates it and goes to great length to ensure stability and prevent it. Luckily I realized that and empowered the guy I inherited who was on a 'PIP' plan because he was always the 'we can't do it', went too slow, let's think this through guy.

znpy 2y ago

Just to share somewhat of a "corollary" to this: if you get into one of such institutions, chances are there already is a "10x developer" and chances are those environments are the kind of environments where a few people (or maybe a single person) can monopolize the decision making process (because they are regarded as the 10x developer). So think twice about pursuing such environments: very often it's not the other team members that are utter shit... Is that the "10x engineer" is making that work environment toxic and not worth staying for other "10x engineer" (but also for "15x engineers" and "35x engineers" who only lack the context about that specific domain). So the logic is actually inverse: those environments very often will only retain a manipulative/toxic/narcissistic "10x engineer" and a bunch of people that are okay with doing whatever and getting the paycheck at the end of the month (and get, maybe wrongly, referred to as "utter shits"). Don't ask me how i know.

wetpaws 2y ago
[dead]
mbsa_cs 2y ago
This is making me reflect about my current work. Prior to reading this I used to think that our tech lead just happened to have the best ideas but now I’m just not sure anymore. Do they have the best ideas or did they master the politics necessary to push their ideas up the stack and everybody else doesn't care enough? I wonder…
- znpy 2y ago
  > Do they have the best ideas or did they master the politics necessary to push their ideas up the stack and everybody else doesn't care enough? Exactly: I had a very similar experience in my previous work. A single guy was super-effective at pushing the technology he was strong in, and preventing anything else from reaching even development environment. He was effectively a 10x because no other colleague was given an actual chance of shining.
sjeneenee 2y ago
Interesting how developers who are just better than the average Joe instantly get labeled a narcesist
- cafard 2y ago
  Considering how hypothetical all this discussion is, you seem to be overstating the matter.
- horns4lyfe 2y ago
  Only if they spend a lot of time talking about how bad everyone else is, which seems to be common on hn.
financltravsty 2y ago
Corollary to this: if you find that there is one engineer monopolizing the entire decision-making process, perhaps it's because everyone else is utter shit, and said engineer is tired of having to deal with the insanity of maintaining non-sense thought up by mercurial incompetents without a semblance of technical ability? Perhaps these "toxic behaviors" are a coping strategy to deal with an organization that is woefully unskilled compared to said engineer? Perhaps the only way to necessitate one's career growth in such places is to wrangle what one would consider are actual toddlers, who simply do not care at all about the tech (incredibly common in non-tech orgs). Perhaps said engineer would be happy to share the glory and fun work, if you made friends, demonstrated competency and initiative, and learned to play the (fucking) game?
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  Before anyone dismisses this for tone, this is remarkably realistic. This is/was me. Working on that. I was the one to call the shots. Joined years ago, took a thing from lab to a real household product, ran out of steam, then left once the fiefdoms started settling in. I noticed the impact it had both personally and externally, leaving was an act of care for everyone. I'm still burned out. I joined a new place and made an ass out of myself in the last couple months, because of this coping mechanism. I'm preconditioned to throw elbows. Fortunately most around me seem to have realized and allowed me room to learn to be human again. I appreciate the healthier dynamics. I'm just trying to learn to participate again in good faith. It was taken from me. The last place was so dysfunctional that me, the effective/favored SRE, was leading literally by consequence - in several senses.
- znpy 2y ago
  > perhaps it's because everyone else is utter shit This is entirely never true, my dude/dudette. It literally never happens that only a single person is smart and everybody else is an idiot. If one thinks that does happen in real life then that person is either a teenager with self-esteem issues or an adult that has seen too many tv series. But frankly my intuition tells me some people will be incapable of understanding that, so i'll be wasting my words for those that can understand it in hope they can recognize the pattern and leave toxic work environments and people as soon as they can. Peace.
_DeadFred_ 2y ago
I was great in a crisis in dev/IT, and always said 'sure, we can do that', which got me to the top. You know who you want at the top? Not the person that thrives on crisis, but the person that hates it and goes to great length to ensure stability and prevent it. Luckily I realized that and empowered the guy I inherited who was on a 'PIP' plan because he was always the 'we can't do it', went too slow, let's think this through guy.