7 ms·

US Bans Kaspersky Software

71 points by Anon84 2y ago

heinternets 2y ago
I feel this is somehow an attack on free speech but I can't articulate how
- spacebanana7 2y ago
  It seems Kaspersky can’t write a book or newspaper column with the contents of its source code and sell it in the US. Without press freedom you don’t have free speech.
  - google234123 2y ago
    You believe a tech company can actually act freely under the Russian government? With thr FSB…
    - fuoqi 2y ago
      The problem is that the company in question can act freely from the US government. Should I remind you what triggered this animosity toward Kaspersky in the first place? https://www.wired.com/story/nsa-leak-kaspersky-labs/ https://www.wired.com/story/nsa-leak-kaspersky-labs/
      - google234123 2y ago
        The US is currently indirectly at war with Russia... I don't understand why you think it makes sense to let someone you are basically at war with operate on your computers
  - cowthulhu 2y ago
    Is that a method anyone has ever used to distribute paid, multi-GB software (or ever will for that matter)? I’m pretty sure Kaspersky is fully closed source anyways. This argument seems really roundabout and ineffective.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - deutschepost 2y ago
      The original code for PGP was distributed that way. Which was also banned in the US. But yeah, it is a pretty bad comparison.
      - charonn0 2y ago
        When was PGP banned in the US?
        deutschepost 2y ago
        My bad. It was export restricted and they were prosecuted for it. That’s the reason they had to publish it by book.
        surfingdino 2y ago
        It wasn't, its export was controlled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy
    - spacebanana7 2y ago
      Most commercial books and newspapers are effectively 'source available', which is closer to closed source than open source.
    - RobotToaster 2y ago
      Just print the hex dump, would probably be quite large unless you used microfiche.
- mdhb 2y ago
  Probably something to do with not really understanding the concept properly I’m guessing.
- rabite 2y ago
  Eugene Kapersky is a Russian state asset and literally refuses to use the word "war" in regards to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Banning foreign agents from a hostile regime in a time of war is not an attack on free speech. Kapersky is free to speak -- and he has, through public statements from his company. He is not free to do business with the Western world while living in a sanctioned country. The number of times I've seen HN posters rejoice that people are not allowed to even communicate their political ideas because they are x-ist (it's a private company, bigot!) is too many to count. But the minute there's an actual genocidal war being waged by one of the most wicked nations on earth, people are very concerned about the Constitutional right to commercially sell antivirus software from the enemy's borders. Absurd.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    >Eugene Kapersky is a Russian state asset and literally refuses to use the word "war" in regards to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. To be fair, western third parties like Japan refer to the conflict as the "Invasion of Ukraine" (ウクライナ侵攻, ukuraina shinkou) and such. Personally, I don't view this as a war because there was no formal declaration(s) of war to be seen anywhere before nor after the fact. War is an act of diplomacy, but what Russia has been doing is anything but.
    - StefanBatory 2y ago
      I guess Russian troops genociding Ukrainians are just tourists, then.
      - creshal 2y ago
        Russian tourists are a rather rowdy bunch, but murdering children while in uniform is a bit much even for them.
        racional 2y ago
        True of most armies -- even the worst we can think of. The architects of war know this, of course. That's why most the killing is usually done at a distance, out of sight and out of mind. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike Which was done (and, judging by the choice of ordinance, signed off on at the highest levels) not despite the fact that they knew there were children present at the carefully selected target; but because of it.
- ramblerman 2y ago
  I think you just perfectly described how people engage in politics today.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  That can happen after a heavy head trauma. You should seek medical help.
flanked-evergl 2y ago
Hard to believe it took so long, but it's positive to see this happening.
- somenameforme 2y ago
  On AV test suites, Kaspersky is literally the best AV both in terms of maximizing detection rates and in terms of minimizing false positives. [1] Kaspersky was the first (only?) antivirus software that was able to detect and out malware created by 'The Equation Group' (NSA). That happened February 2015. [2] By August, the media was running scary stories about them based on anonymous sources. [3] By 2017, the US government was working to ban them. And here we are now. [1] - https://www.av-comparatives.org/test-results/ https://www.av-comparatives.org/test-results/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_Group#Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_Group#Discovery [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations_of_Russian_government_ties#Alleged_Russian_intelligence_collaboration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations...
  - mdhb 2y ago
    Worth noting that you aren’t ever going to be on the receiving end of NSA malware by accident. Unless you have a reason to believe that somewhere the NSA is having a meeting where your name is getting mentioned this isn’t actually something you need to worry about. Also worth noting that if you do happen to find yourself on a targeting list, no one brand of anti virus is going to make even the smallest bit of difference as to what the outcome of that decision was. This angle you seem to be insinuating that this decision to ban them is somehow because “they are mad” is a child like understanding of the situation and is actively wrong.
    - tjoff 2y ago
      ... but when the NSA malware gets out in the wild you might very well be targeted along with millions of others.
      - 2y ago
sunaookami 2y ago
Just ban every "antivirus" software.
SXX 2y ago
Eugene Kapersky is big fan of going to bathhouses with Russian FSB officials. Also unlike many other Russian companies he refused to relocate offices out of Russia when full-scale war began. Good riddance. EU should do the same.
- piskov 2y ago
  There’s a plethora of cia, nsa, “what have you” guys at OpenAI, Google, Meta, you name it — should every other country in the world ban US software? Or are there “good” intelligence officers and “bad”? The moment some backdoor is discovered in Kaspersky, it is done as a product all over the world. That’s the best protection about any alleged government connections exploiting the software. The notion of open market, competition, democracy is only exercised when it is your products that should undermine the locals. The moment it is not, you start hearing stuff like “overcapacity” (what a nice term) of china manufacturing — what a hypocrisy. As soon as US starts loosing the positions, it wriggles just as any “dictatorship” protecting its interest by quickly dismissing the free market as it needs.
  - SXX 2y ago
    > The moment some backdoor is discovered in Kaspersky What do you mean as "backdoor"? Any anti-virus software is a backdoor. Anti-virus software is rootkit on your system. It can literally upload any file on your disk to the cloud. This is by design and this is why you dont want to run Russian state-controlled company software on your system.
    - piskov 2y ago
      I mean the AV software being used as a malicious agent. > We fully believe that … the Russian government is either now using Kaspersky or certainly would be willing to use Kaspersky. “Highly likely” is a shit of an argument that is exercised quite often lately.
      - SXX 2y ago
        > I mean the AV software being used as a malicious agent. See the problem: there is absolutely no way to tell whatever AV software uploading your sensetive documents to it's servers for legit reasons or because it's spying on you.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deknos 2y ago
[flagged]
djaouen 2y ago
Anti-virus software companies are incentivized to discover more and more malware. Not saying that AV companies produce malware ( ;) ), but the incentives are misaligned. Ban anti-virus software.
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40743524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40743524
axegon_ 2y ago
Brilliant! I have to say, I'm really impressed by how much the US is stepping up it's game, first with TikTok, now this. I wish Europe would do the same. Like yesterday.
gregopet 2y ago
They know very well how powerful it is to have software on nearly every computer on the planet.

71 points by Anon84 2y ago

heinternets 2y ago

I feel this is somehow an attack on free speech but I can't articulate how

spacebanana7 2y ago
It seems Kaspersky can’t write a book or newspaper column with the contents of its source code and sell it in the US. Without press freedom you don’t have free speech.
- google234123 2y ago
  You believe a tech company can actually act freely under the Russian government? With thr FSB…
  - fuoqi 2y ago
    The problem is that the company in question can act freely from the US government. Should I remind you what triggered this animosity toward Kaspersky in the first place? https://www.wired.com/story/nsa-leak-kaspersky-labs/ https://www.wired.com/story/nsa-leak-kaspersky-labs/
    - google234123 2y ago
      The US is currently indirectly at war with Russia... I don't understand why you think it makes sense to let someone you are basically at war with operate on your computers
- cowthulhu 2y ago
  Is that a method anyone has ever used to distribute paid, multi-GB software (or ever will for that matter)? I’m pretty sure Kaspersky is fully closed source anyways. This argument seems really roundabout and ineffective.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - deutschepost 2y ago
    The original code for PGP was distributed that way. Which was also banned in the US. But yeah, it is a pretty bad comparison.
    - charonn0 2y ago
      When was PGP banned in the US?
      - deutschepost 2y ago
        My bad. It was export restricted and they were prosecuted for it. That’s the reason they had to publish it by book.
      - surfingdino 2y ago
        It wasn't, its export was controlled https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Good_Privacy
  - spacebanana7 2y ago
    Most commercial books and newspapers are effectively 'source available', which is closer to closed source than open source.
  - RobotToaster 2y ago
    Just print the hex dump, would probably be quite large unless you used microfiche.
mdhb 2y ago
Probably something to do with not really understanding the concept properly I’m guessing.
rabite 2y ago
Eugene Kapersky is a Russian state asset and literally refuses to use the word "war" in regards to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Banning foreign agents from a hostile regime in a time of war is not an attack on free speech. Kapersky is free to speak -- and he has, through public statements from his company. He is not free to do business with the Western world while living in a sanctioned country. The number of times I've seen HN posters rejoice that people are not allowed to even communicate their political ideas because they are x-ist (it's a private company, bigot!) is too many to count. But the minute there's an actual genocidal war being waged by one of the most wicked nations on earth, people are very concerned about the Constitutional right to commercially sell antivirus software from the enemy's borders. Absurd.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >Eugene Kapersky is a Russian state asset and literally refuses to use the word "war" in regards to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. To be fair, western third parties like Japan refer to the conflict as the "Invasion of Ukraine" (ウクライナ侵攻, ukuraina shinkou) and such. Personally, I don't view this as a war because there was no formal declaration(s) of war to be seen anywhere before nor after the fact. War is an act of diplomacy, but what Russia has been doing is anything but.
  - StefanBatory 2y ago
    I guess Russian troops genociding Ukrainians are just tourists, then.
    - creshal 2y ago
      Russian tourists are a rather rowdy bunch, but murdering children while in uniform is a bit much even for them.
      - racional 2y ago
        True of most armies -- even the worst we can think of. The architects of war know this, of course. That's why most the killing is usually done at a distance, out of sight and out of mind. See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariupol_theatre_airstrike Which was done (and, judging by the choice of ordinance, signed off on at the highest levels) not despite the fact that they knew there were children present at the carefully selected target; but because of it.
ramblerman 2y ago
I think you just perfectly described how people engage in politics today.
TiredOfLife 2y ago
That can happen after a heavy head trauma. You should seek medical help.

flanked-evergl 2y ago

Hard to believe it took so long, but it's positive to see this happening.

somenameforme 2y ago
On AV test suites, Kaspersky is literally the best AV both in terms of maximizing detection rates and in terms of minimizing false positives. [1] Kaspersky was the first (only?) antivirus software that was able to detect and out malware created by 'The Equation Group' (NSA). That happened February 2015. [2] By August, the media was running scary stories about them based on anonymous sources. [3] By 2017, the US government was working to ban them. And here we are now. [1] - https://www.av-comparatives.org/test-results/ https://www.av-comparatives.org/test-results/ [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_Group#Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_Group#Discovery [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations_of_Russian_government_ties#Alleged_Russian_intelligence_collaboration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaspersky_bans_and_allegations...
- mdhb 2y ago
  Worth noting that you aren’t ever going to be on the receiving end of NSA malware by accident. Unless you have a reason to believe that somewhere the NSA is having a meeting where your name is getting mentioned this isn’t actually something you need to worry about. Also worth noting that if you do happen to find yourself on a targeting list, no one brand of anti virus is going to make even the smallest bit of difference as to what the outcome of that decision was. This angle you seem to be insinuating that this decision to ban them is somehow because “they are mad” is a child like understanding of the situation and is actively wrong.
  - tjoff 2y ago
    ... but when the NSA malware gets out in the wild you might very well be targeted along with millions of others.
    - 2y ago

sunaookami 2y ago

Just ban every "antivirus" software.

SXX 2y ago

Eugene Kapersky is big fan of going to bathhouses with Russian FSB officials. Also unlike many other Russian companies he refused to relocate offices out of Russia when full-scale war began. Good riddance. EU should do the same.

piskov 2y ago
There’s a plethora of cia, nsa, “what have you” guys at OpenAI, Google, Meta, you name it — should every other country in the world ban US software? Or are there “good” intelligence officers and “bad”? The moment some backdoor is discovered in Kaspersky, it is done as a product all over the world. That’s the best protection about any alleged government connections exploiting the software. The notion of open market, competition, democracy is only exercised when it is your products that should undermine the locals. The moment it is not, you start hearing stuff like “overcapacity” (what a nice term) of china manufacturing — what a hypocrisy. As soon as US starts loosing the positions, it wriggles just as any “dictatorship” protecting its interest by quickly dismissing the free market as it needs.
- SXX 2y ago
  > The moment some backdoor is discovered in Kaspersky What do you mean as "backdoor"? Any anti-virus software is a backdoor. Anti-virus software is rootkit on your system. It can literally upload any file on your disk to the cloud. This is by design and this is why you dont want to run Russian state-controlled company software on your system.
  - piskov 2y ago
    I mean the AV software being used as a malicious agent. > We fully believe that … the Russian government is either now using Kaspersky or certainly would be willing to use Kaspersky. “Highly likely” is a shit of an argument that is exercised quite often lately.
    - SXX 2y ago
      > I mean the AV software being used as a malicious agent. See the problem: there is absolutely no way to tell whatever AV software uploading your sensetive documents to it's servers for legit reasons or because it's spying on you.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deknos 2y ago

[flagged]

djaouen 2y ago

Anti-virus software companies are incentivized to discover more and more malware. Not saying that AV companies produce malware ( ;) ), but the incentives are misaligned. Ban anti-virus software.

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] Some more discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40743524 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40743524

axegon_ 2y ago

Brilliant! I have to say, I'm really impressed by how much the US is stepping up it's game, first with TikTok, now this. I wish Europe would do the same. Like yesterday.

gregopet 2y ago

They know very well how powerful it is to have software on nearly every computer on the planet.