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Tesla owners file class-action alleging repair, parts monopoly

• nashashmi 2y ago
  Weren’t all the patents made available for free? Can’t anyone make parts now?
  • xwolfi 2y ago
    Guess
  • dhc02 2y ago
    Parents, full design specs, and repair documentation are three very different things.
    • peutetre 2y ago
      > Parents, full design specs, and repair documentation My parents provided the full design specs for me. Repair documentation is available at the hospital.
      • pfannkuchen 2y ago
        The repair documentation is appallingly sparse, unfortunately.
        • shiroiushi 2y ago
          And the design has a bunch of really egregious flaws that haven't been addressed at all, and a few that are utterly bone-headed.
        • dhc02 2y ago
          Ha. I'm leaving it.
• EgregiousCube 2y ago
  https://www.classaction.org/media/lambrix-v-tesla-inc.pdf https://www.classaction.org/media/lambrix-v-tesla-inc.pdf The suit in question.
• blindriver 2y ago
  If you get into an accident, it takes months to get your parts to fix it. What makes it worse is that most car rental contracts via insurance will only cover up to 30 days, so you end up being on the hook for the car rental. This happened to me last year this time, I lost the car for the entire summer which was frustrating.
  • oplav 2y ago
    I’m running into a similar situation with an electric Ego lawn mower. 1 year old mower stopped turning on, took it to the authorized repair center for warranty work, some PCB needs to be replaced but it’s back ordered for months. I ended up having to buy another lawn mower for the summer. I’m grateful for the easy warranty process that Ego has, but it’s got me thinking if shifting to electrical means harder to come by parts for repair.
    • 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
      My father's gas lawnmower is ~40 years old and never had an issue. Snowblower is 50+ years old but has had 1 engine replacement.
      • WheatMillington 2y ago
        To be fair, the only gasoline engines with this kind of lifespan have had significant maintenance over their lifetimes. Regular oil changes, spark plugs and air filters and other servicing. The idea that gasoline engines are inherently more reliable than electric just doesn't match the data.
        • 2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
          My father doesn't do any maintenance.
      • giraffe_lady 2y ago
        When electric lawnmowers have been around for 50 years we'll have the same anecdotes about them.
• cbeach 2y ago
  I had one experience with Tesla parts and it was positive. I had an issue with corroded bolts on my Model S liftgate. Following advice from the Tesla Owners UK Facebook group, I emailed OrderPartsUK@tesla.com and surprisingly got a call back within minutes. They identified the parts and explained how to fit them. They charged my card over the phone: £2.30, with no charge made for delivery. I received the bolts the following morning and fitted them myself. You can browse Tesla's parts catalogue at https://epc.tesla.com/ https://epc.tesla.com/ - which contains diagrams showing every single component in the cars. I found it fascinating.
  • toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Same experience whenever I’ve ever needed parts from Tesla. Fasteners for various pieces of trim, suspension parts (model y suspension upgrade), a wiring harness, always a great experience when working with the parts counter at the nearest service center to where I was when needing the parts. The disconnect between Tesla corporate policy and super helpful local employees is frustrating and disappointing.
  • gerdesj 2y ago
    Please forgive me if I'm way out but I think a liftgate is a plate that acts a bit like a fork lift on the back of a lorry. I usually know it as a tail lift. Having browsed that catalogue thingie, it looks like the boot lid is formally called a liftgate by Tesla, presumably it is hydraulic. I might call that a tailgate instead of boot lid or simply the boot (trunk). I think we'll put that down to the US <<subst GB if required>> and the rest of the English speaking world ... << insert comment here >> Corroded bolts that you can get at on a car sounds quite a serious fail. This is a Tesla S and not my first Ford Fiesta Mk 1. I'm old enough to remember when galvanization of car bodies became a thing. Nowadays, you rarely hear of anyone stepping into a car and being able to see the road through their knees. Stainless steel has also been a thing for rather a long time. I'm (not) looking forward to finding out what fails my Chinese "MG" effort manages in the next few years. So far mechanically and electrically all good but its Android central console is rather flaky. I am happy that the driver's console (behind the steering wheel) is just a display and not "smart" in any way. It is important that bollocks is called out and your anecdote seems to support that. You were able to DIY and clearly Tesla will supply some parts to civilians. However, are you absolutely sure that your warranty is still valid? Have you read it, all of it? Even so, we enjoy quite a few protections as consumers in the UK, as do wider Europeans and even in the US (int al)! Your corroded bolts anecdote had a happy ending (sorry) but it should not have happened in the first place.
• bangaladore 2y ago
  One thing to note is that this suit is ~16 months old. From skimming the filing, I'm not sure I completely understand what Tesla is doing wrong when they: Provide over-the-counter part purchasing to anyone via their EPC website. Presumably, some parts cannot be purchased by just anyone, but most can. Provide service manuals free of charge to everyone. You can go onto the website and view them. The service manuals include all the information you would need to completely dissasemble and reassemble the car. What other companies do this? Provide in-car diagnostic via the service menu to allow for most common service activities. Its far more extensive then people believe, likely because its hidden unless you know how to get into it (hold down the trim and type service as the access code). Provides the ability to subscribe to Tesla "Toolbox" which is the full paid diagnostic and repair suite. Moreover, there are independent repair shops, and any shop can also be "Tesla" approved. Additionally, in my experience, part costs through Tesla are quite low. Almost at-cost low it seems.
  • FireBeyond 2y ago
    You realize that all of these things weren't always the case, and (as usual) Tesla had to be dragged to the table. Massachussetts lead that charge. Until their AG got involved, the EPC website existed, but NOTHING was purchasable from the site. Literally every item said "Unavailable" or "Call Tesla", even things as simple as a 1/4 inch bolt. Service manuals free of charge? No, Tesla had one location in MA where you could go to look at the service manual. And you had to pay a fee ($100, IIRC). And you had to make an appointment. And you got an hour. And you could take no electronic devices, just a pencil and legal pad.
    • FireBeyond 2y ago
      Ruffled feathers, apparently. > Question 1, as the measure was called on the ballot, will force car manufacturers to ensure independent repair stores have access to the same diagnostic tools as manufacturer run repair stores. That will change the automobile repair landscape in Massachusetts, especially for Tesla, a notoriously secretive company that has made it hard and expensive to service its electric vehicles. > Tesla has pushed back against these kinds of laws before. A similar law passed in 2012, one that said dealerships had to make service manuals and diagnostic information available to repair stores. Notably, Tesla also wasn't part of a memorandum of understanding signed by car manufacturers nationwide that effectively made the Massachusetts legislation a national law. > But Tesla did make some information available. “Out of the kindness of their heart, they made a portal so that you could log in and access their diagnostics,” Benoit said. “It’s available, but it’s only available to Tesla certified shops.” Service manuals free of charge. I was wrong, though, 24 hours, not one: > The Tesla Service and Repair Information Portal allows body shops to sign up and get certified for “complimentary account access.” Anyone else looking to get repair and diagnostic information out of Tesla has to pay for a subscription. $100 buys you 24 hours of access. An annual subscription costs $3,000. > Tesla has also repeatedly, for example, used software to lock consumers out of certain aspects of their cars. Tesla has also fought against independent repair companies, and has at times refused to certify them. Source: https://www.vice.com/en/article/93wy8v/newly-passed-right-to-repair-law-will-fundamentally-change-tesla-repair https://www.vice.com/en/article/93wy8v/newly-passed-right-to... So while things may be better now (great!), it's revisionist to think they've always been that way. > Tesla was outspoken in opposing Massachusetts’ auto right to repair law last November. The story this week of Tesla’s $16,000 quote for a repair that an independent garage did for $700 suggests why. > The company sent a letter to its Massachusetts customers urging them to vote against Question 1, arguing - without evidence - that the measure would open vehicles to cyber attacks.
• rconti 2y ago
  Unfortunately the article is short on details -- I've gotten my Tesla repaired both at independent shops (broken rear triangle glass, which is a tesla part, not a repro), and at Tesla service centers. I've (online) heard horror stories of long parts waits, but it's not clear how or if those waits are different at a Tesla service center vs an indie shop (eg, is Tesla prioritizing their own SCs?). I assume the suit is alleging that independent shops have a harder time sourcing parts than service centers do? If so, it seems like a reasonable case. Of course, they can't really allege a parts monopoly on its own, any more so than against any other manufacturer, since 99% of the time, repair parts for any car are sourced from the manufacturer via a dealer parts counter. Eventually OE and OEM parts are available through parts stores, but that's an opaque process to the end consumer. It would also be interesting if the problem here is the lack of a franchise model- in theory I can get my Toyota repaired at one of several dealerships, so technically there's "competition" in the market, even though they all need to hold a franchise to use the name. And, of course, there would presumably be an outcry if Toyota refused to play nice to indie shops as well.
  • kgc 2y ago
    There are Tesla authorized repair centers, so I don’t think franchising is the issue either.
  • cannaceo 2y ago
    Independent shops don't wory on Teslas. Any body damage leads to camera alignment stuff that shops don't want to touch.
    • cfeduke 2y ago
      Tesla uses independent body shops they certify, I know this because I've used one as a result of a deer accident. The service centers do not handle beyond some level of damage.
    • rconti 2y ago
      Well that's obviously not true, I know people who have had their body damage fixed elsewhere. In fact, I doubt Tesla service centers do _any_ of their own bodywork, so it's entirely possible your comment is the exact opposite of true.
• kevin_b_er 2y ago
  The case is already dead. If you bought a Tesla, you have no right to a court of law involving Tesla. It will go to arbitration, where the case will be secret, but Tesla will know the arguments and results of of all attempts against it, but not you. It will go to arbitration, where the arbiter may be blacklisted from future cases if it rules against Tesla. It will go to arbitration, where the arbiter's ruling is final and the law does not apply. Capricious? Does not matter. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is superseded and voided by the American Arbitration Act. You, as a citizen owner of a Tesla, are barred from using that law against Tesla. The Sherman Act is superseded and voided by the American Arbitration Act. You, as a citizen owner of a Tesla, are barred from using that law against Tesla. No court of law will ever be permitted to apply those laws against Telsa by a Tesla owner. This case was already dismissed once in Sept of last year when the motion to compel arbitration was granted. They're trying again with some sort of attempted resurrection, but its just a waste of money, because Tesla owners are barred from courts of law. They will go to a privatized pseudo-court where they will lose and where they can't do class action unless Telsa wants it.
  • fallingknife 2y ago
    Do you have a source for this? Because it doesn't sound credible.
    • kevin_b_er 2y ago
      You can read their Motor Vehicle Order Agreement. Mandatory Binding Arbitration. https://www.epi.org/publication/the-arbitration-epidemic/ https://www.epi.org/publication/the-arbitration-epidemic/ https://centerjd.org/system/files/ArbitrationWhitePaper.pdf https://centerjd.org/system/files/ArbitrationWhitePaper.pdf You can even read Hall Street Associates, L.L.C. v. Mattel, Inc, where even when the agreement said the courts could review. Where, no, courts of law may not review an arbiter's decision if you both agree it would be able to after arbitration. You can read Mitsubishi Motors Corp. v. Soler Chrysler-Plymouth, Inc., where SCOTUS explicitly declared the American Arbitration Act overrides the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. You can read Express Co. v. Italian Colors Restaurant, where you find out you have no substantive rights where the AAA is involved. There's still weak attempts to save it, but the The National Labor Relations Act is also likely superseded by the American Arbitration Act, basically voiding the NLRA from being ever applicable. Courts of law are barred where arbitration is inserted, anywhere, whether you know it or not. You lose basic rights where arbitration is concerned.
• steelframe 2y ago
  My fresh-off-the-lot 2024 Toyota GR Corolla got nearly its entire side mangled by a red light runner on day 8 of ownership. Mind you this is a brand-new model, first released in 2023. Once my insurance finished dragging their heels on doing their assessment -- as they didn't yet have any of the parts for it in their internal database -- it took another week to get on the schedule with one of the ~20 auto body shops in a 15-mile radius of where I live. An entire door and two windows needed replacing, along with a fender, trim, and so forth. The shop apologized that some of the parts were delayed by a whole week, and in the end it took 5 weeks to restore the vehicle to its original state. And this sort of thing is precisely why I chose to go with an established automaker with a strong reputation for reliability and serviceability. This has become so much more important to me than almost any other feature in a motor vehicle.
  • FireBeyond 2y ago
    > And this sort of thing is precisely why I chose to go with an established automaker with a strong reputation for reliability and serviceability. This has become so much more important to me than almost any other feature in a motor vehicle. Jaguars are not known for reliability. Indeed, I got rid of my 2012 XJ L after its coolant system failed catastrophically one too many times (which was "two times" - first one, okay, so be it, happens again, no thank you). However, at some point the dealer bricked the entertainment console (of course tied into everything else), and it was an all in one unit that they had to replace... I am near Seattle. "Well crap, how long is that going to take?" (thinking the car is several years old at this point, and not a high volume of sales). "Oh, we should be able to have a new unit installed by the end of tomorrow, unless we have to get it sent from England, in which case, end of day after tomorrow".
    • steelframe 2y ago
      One of my other cars is a 2019 Jaguar I-PACE. It's generally been rather reliable over the past 5 years. The main problems have been how it tends to like to brick itself when something electronically doesn't go quite right. For example when I had it turned on and running the A/C on the Edmonds-Kingston ferry it decided that the suspension was borked and refused to release the emergency brake once the ferry arrived at dock. You know what happens when you can't push your bricked car off the ferry? They put cones around your car and load everyone else on the ferry around you while you try to explain to the tow company on the phone how you have a luxury AWD EV bouncing back and forth across the Puget Sound that needs to be winched onto a flatbed. Then when the auxiliary battery died it decided to roll into the middle of a parking lot and gradually glitch out and clamp down on the emergency brakes again as the main 12v battery then died, and you get to have it winched onto another flatbed as it's also impossible to release the emergency brakes once the 12v batteries have given up the ghost. Hence why my most recent vehicle has a clutch pedal, a stick attached to a gearbox, and an emergency brake attached to a lever via a cable.
• deleted 2y ago
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• honeybadger1 2y ago
  This will fail and it's a good thing.