3 ms·

The issue always is, who keeps the proceeds from sale of the forfeited vehicle. If it is the police that issued the ticket, this amounts to a license for police

The issue always is, who keeps the proceeds from sale of the forfeited vehicle. If it is the police that issued the ticket, this amounts to a license for police to commit highway robbery. If not a problem now in Austria, it eventually will be.

piva00 2y ago
It's not a problem in Switzerland. Where are you from?
shkkmo 2y ago
Given that, as the article states, police have to prove the violation before they can permanently confiscate the property, that is not an accurate description. It is only when you allow police to sieze anything and then require you to disprove the allegations (such as is currently the case in much of the USA), that you legalize highway robbery.
- unyttigfjelltol 2y ago
  Those are good points, but I'm not sure the article is crystal on the details and anyway if a little exaggeration can net the police a big gain, this would invite public suspicion as, for example, in Menifee, Arkansas [1]. See generally https://ij.org/issues/private-property/civil-forfeiture/frequently-asked-questions-about-civil-forfeiture/ https://ij.org/issues/private-property/civil-forfeiture/freq... [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-arkansas-town-banned-from-writing-speed-tickets-after-writing-too-many https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-arkansas-town-banned-fro...
  - shkkmo 2y ago
    I think the size also makes a difference. Each speeding ticket is a small sum that isn't worth the travel to fight. Losing an entire car is several orders of magnitude more expensive. Since Austria already has speeding tickets, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. The issue in Menifee is that tickets were issued for speeding violations that were in the "acceptable" speeding range of less than 10mph over. No exaggeration was required because speeding small amounts was ubiquitous. Personally I like people to drive the actual speed limit and don't think consistent minor speeding should be as socially acceptable as it is. However, the article explains to the new law only applies in cases of extreme speeding and only when there is documented proof of such. Personally, I think criminal charges, jail time and permanent license revocation are also called for when someone goes 135 on a 80 mph road (barely sufficient to warrant permanent vehicle confiscation under the Austrian law under discussion.) As I alluded to, civil forfeiture is very different in that you have you prove your innocence rather than having the presumption of innocence.
rowbin 2y ago
Why would the police keep the money? It doesn't get to keep other confiscated money, does it? Wouldn't the state be the "default" recipient?
- dmoy 2y ago
  > Why would the police keep the money? It doesn't get to keep other confiscated money, does it? Wouldn't the state be the "default" recipient? That really depends on the jurisdiction. Many police departments in the US self fund via confiscations, sometimes even not as a penalty for breaking the law. In a big city, that's a small part of the budget. In some more rural counties, it can be a surprisingly large amount of the budget. See "civil asset forfeiture"
- infecto 2y ago
  There are unfortunately states within the US that do allow civil forfeiture. Its become quite well known where people will get pulled over with larger amounts of cash $10k+ and the cops don't like the answer of why they have money and they take it. It then becomes the burden of the owner to prove they lawfully own that money. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/8/8909133/civil-forfeiture-states-map https://www.vox.com/2015/7/8/8909133/civil-forfeiture-states...
  - RajT88 2y ago
    Usually way less than 10k in cash: https://www.propublica.org/article/police-say-seizing-property-without-trial-helps-keep-crime-down-a-new-study-shows-theyre-wrong https://www.propublica.org/article/police-say-seizing-proper...
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  That sounds the same. It seems surprising to take the car. If I kill someone I don't have to give the state my house, or even my pen. Possessions - unless illegal goods - are not the state's to take.
Arrath 2y ago
Who should the proceeds go to? The offending owner? The local municipality in which the offence occurred? The regional government coffers? Per the article you would have to be exceeding the speed limit by a very sizable margin to be eligible for this seizure, I find it hard to imagine the police engineering situations in which to take advantage of this.
VS1999 2y ago
I don't have any tolerance for people who put everyone else at risk. Take their license, take their cars, send them to prison if they try driving again.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

piva00 2y ago

It's not a problem in Switzerland. Where are you from?

shkkmo 2y ago

Given that, as the article states, police have to prove the violation before they can permanently confiscate the property, that is not an accurate description. It is only when you allow police to sieze anything and then require you to disprove the allegations (such as is currently the case in much of the USA), that you legalize highway robbery.

unyttigfjelltol 2y ago
Those are good points, but I'm not sure the article is crystal on the details and anyway if a little exaggeration can net the police a big gain, this would invite public suspicion as, for example, in Menifee, Arkansas [1]. See generally https://ij.org/issues/private-property/civil-forfeiture/frequently-asked-questions-about-civil-forfeiture/ https://ij.org/issues/private-property/civil-forfeiture/freq... [1] https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-arkansas-town-banned-from-writing-speed-tickets-after-writing-too-many https://www.thedrive.com/news/small-arkansas-town-banned-fro...
- shkkmo 2y ago
  I think the size also makes a difference. Each speeding ticket is a small sum that isn't worth the travel to fight. Losing an entire car is several orders of magnitude more expensive. Since Austria already has speeding tickets, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. The issue in Menifee is that tickets were issued for speeding violations that were in the "acceptable" speeding range of less than 10mph over. No exaggeration was required because speeding small amounts was ubiquitous. Personally I like people to drive the actual speed limit and don't think consistent minor speeding should be as socially acceptable as it is. However, the article explains to the new law only applies in cases of extreme speeding and only when there is documented proof of such. Personally, I think criminal charges, jail time and permanent license revocation are also called for when someone goes 135 on a 80 mph road (barely sufficient to warrant permanent vehicle confiscation under the Austrian law under discussion.) As I alluded to, civil forfeiture is very different in that you have you prove your innocence rather than having the presumption of innocence.

rowbin 2y ago

Why would the police keep the money? It doesn't get to keep other confiscated money, does it? Wouldn't the state be the "default" recipient?

dmoy 2y ago
> Why would the police keep the money? It doesn't get to keep other confiscated money, does it? Wouldn't the state be the "default" recipient? That really depends on the jurisdiction. Many police departments in the US self fund via confiscations, sometimes even not as a penalty for breaking the law. In a big city, that's a small part of the budget. In some more rural counties, it can be a surprisingly large amount of the budget. See "civil asset forfeiture"
infecto 2y ago
There are unfortunately states within the US that do allow civil forfeiture. Its become quite well known where people will get pulled over with larger amounts of cash $10k+ and the cops don't like the answer of why they have money and they take it. It then becomes the burden of the owner to prove they lawfully own that money. https://www.vox.com/2015/7/8/8909133/civil-forfeiture-states-map https://www.vox.com/2015/7/8/8909133/civil-forfeiture-states...
- RajT88 2y ago
  Usually way less than 10k in cash: https://www.propublica.org/article/police-say-seizing-property-without-trial-helps-keep-crime-down-a-new-study-shows-theyre-wrong https://www.propublica.org/article/police-say-seizing-proper...
robertlagrant 2y ago
That sounds the same. It seems surprising to take the car. If I kill someone I don't have to give the state my house, or even my pen. Possessions - unless illegal goods - are not the state's to take.

Arrath 2y ago

Who should the proceeds go to? The offending owner? The local municipality in which the offence occurred? The regional government coffers? Per the article you would have to be exceeding the speed limit by a very sizable margin to be eligible for this seizure, I find it hard to imagine the police engineering situations in which to take advantage of this.

VS1999 2y ago

I don't have any tolerance for people who put everyone else at risk. Take their license, take their cars, send them to prison if they try driving again.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]